USANA's October 2010 Distributor Hall of Fame
Compiled and Analyzed
Compiled and Analyzed
By: USANAWatchDog
October 2010
 |
| Click For FULL SIZE |
Of course if this information were made available to prospects before they join USANA's business opportunity, the outcome may be very different. Who would join a failed business where 99% of USANA's sales representatives lose money? It is easy to see how bad the failure rate is when comparing the leadership levels in this diagram to USANA's last average distributor earnings figures: USANA's 2006 North American Distributor Earnings Statement. USANA has not published a relevant report since then.
In the diagram, I represent USANA's distributors in a pyramid chart. The pyramid on the lower left represents all of USANA's distributors that have at one time or another received a commission check. Since the higher ranks represent such a small percentage of the total, the middle pyramid is a zoomed-in representation of the lower left pyramid's tip. The same goes for the upper right pyramid, which is a zoomed-in representation of the middle pyramid. The diagram does not even include the other 600,000+ distributors that have never received a commission check! USANA also only considers what is represented in the upper right pyramid as "Full Time" distributors (Gold Directors and up). Everyone else are just part timers according to USANA.
So what is USANA's response to this? I would love to know. USANA cannot claim that most distributors join only to receive discounts on the product because USANA's Preferred Customers pay the same price as distributors. All of USANA's distributors joined with the intent to "Make Money" (otherwise they would only be preferred customers). Distributors are forced to purchase over $100 worth of product every 4 weeks in order to receive their commission check. Just imagine each level of distributors making these required product purchases. Those purchases pay commission to the higher levels. What we have here is a very elaborate pyramid scheme.
The Security Exchange Commission, Federal Trade Commission, Stock Analysts, Shareholders, Distributors and Prospects should all be aware of the information presented in the diagram.
So If USANA does not publicly publish their distributor figures, where and how did you get this information? did you make it up yourself? half it doesn't even make sense. Can you explain what those figures mean?
ReplyDeleteIn response to "So If USANA does not publicly publish their distributor figures, where and how did you get this information? did you make it up yourself?"
ReplyDeleteUSANA allows their distributors access to information that if one knew what they were doing, could compile such a list. I did not "make it up".
In response to "half it doesn't even make sense."
What "half" doesn't make sense to you?
In response to "Can you explain what those figures mean? "
Well, 600,000+ distributors that are not included in the chart have never received a commission check. Ouch!
When a distributor receives a $40 commission check, that distributor becomes a "Sharer". There are 112,285 Sharers. According to USANA's last truthful "2006 North American Average Earnings Statement": The average Sharer received $98.43 in one year. People working minimum wage jobs make this in about 2 working days.
After a distributor receives a $100 commission check, that distributor becomes a "Believer". There are 128,382 Believers. According to USANA's last truthful "2006 North American Average Earnings Statement": The average Believer received $314.41 in one year. People working minimum wage jobs make this in about 6 working days.
After a distributor receives a $200 commission check, that distributor becomes a "Builder". There are 44,439 Builders. According to USANA's last truthful "2006 North American Average Earnings Statement": The average Builder received $1194.84 in one year. People working minimum wage jobs make this in about 20 working days.
After a distributor receives a $400 commission check, that distributor becomes a "Achiever". There are 12,256 Achievers. According to USANA's last truthful "2006 North American Average Earnings Statement": The average Achiever received $2822.65 in one year. People working minimum wage jobs make this in about 49 working days.
And so forth......
That's practically USANA's entire workforce not making enough to cover their expenses. USANA offers a failed business model that guarantees over 90% of participants to never make a profit. It is designed that way to enrich a very small percentage of participating distributors as well as provide cash to USANA to buy back hundreds of millions of dollars of stock, which is what funds the executives pockets. See the following "Track Insider Buy and Sell" for USANA: http://www.insidercow.com/history/company.jsp?company=usna
Since USANA's 2006 North American Average Earnings Statement, the average earnings for each of these leadership levels I have described above have dropped due to rampant recruiting because of the "Matching Bonus" plan. This is evident of analyzing USANA's more recent North American Average Earnings Statement for 2008 and 2009, but they are difficult to analyze since they only present statistics for the top few percent of distributors.
Now consider some very typical expenses that distributors incur: "Typical USANA Distributor Expenses" - http://mlmpyramid.com/Distributor_Expenses.html
$2622.90 in expenses is very easy to rack up. This doesn't include shipping fees, hotel fees, gas mileage, and other common expenses.
So how about a couple answers from you to my questions above?
What do the %'s next to each pyramid thing mean or represent?
ReplyDeleteAlso, Out of those 600,000 distributors, how many of them are still active till this day? Its easy to say that any half billion dollar company can have over 600,000 associates or employees. Heck with any company associates come and go all the time. Does it make sense to count the people who started with Apple or Microsoft at the very beginning, who have either moved on from the company to be counted as their current active list and say they don't get paid?
Also, I'm going to assume you have friends or someone that is in USANA who is very high up there and who has access to this information, since you stated before that you are not in USANA and someone in USANA would have access to information such as this?
In response to "What do the %'s next to each pyramid thing mean or represent?"
ReplyDeleteThat represents the percentage of distributors below that line in comparison to the total distributors that have received a commission check.
The 36.08% represents the 112,285 Sharers from the total 311,197 paid distributors.
The 77.34% represents the 112,285 Sharers plus the 128,382 Believers (240,667) from the total 311,197 paid distributors.
and so on...
In response to "Also, Out of those 600,000 distributors, how many of them are still active till this day? Its easy to say that any half billion dollar company can have over 600,000 associates or employees. Heck with any company associates come and go all the time. Does it make sense to count the people who started with Apple or Microsoft at the very beginning, who have either moved on from the company to be counted as their current active list and say they don't get paid?"
Most of those 600,000 distributors are still current members of USANA's business opportunity. Just because they have never received a commission check doesn't mean they aren't trying. Plus, even if I count every person who started with Apple or Microsoft at the very beginning, all 100% of them were paid a substantial amount. When did I ever count an old USANA distributor as currently active and say they don't get paid? The 600,000 distributors I mention have NEVER been paid; past or present. Nada. Zilch.
In response to "Also, I'm going to assume you have friends or someone that is in USANA who is very high up there and who has access to this information, since you stated before that you are not in USANA and someone in USANA would have access to information such as this?"
Distributors who join today have access to the same information. It does not require any "very high up" distributor to access this information. And you are correct, I have stated that I am not in USANA. I will never join what I believe is an elaborate pyramid scheme designed to swindle distributors out of thousands of dollars a year. Over the years I have had many distributors ask me questions and have even provided valuable information. None of the information has anything to do with USANA's Genealogy Report, which is what I believe you were attempting to suggest by asking if I got the information from a USANA member who is "very high up". Distributing the Genealogy Report is against USANA's policies and procedures because it details trade secrets about USANA.
You still haven't stated where you gotten this information from. Yes, It is true that new distributors who joined today have access to the same information, and you said that you've had distributors themselves ask you questions and you provided them information. So where did you get this information from?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I don't believe you are aware of the policies and procedures for a usana distributorship, that if any USANA distributorship is not enrolled or has their autoship turned on for a given 4 week period, they are considered inactive in the business. Hope that helps.
Why do (pro) Usana people always seem to have questions to ask people who are against them and people would answer, but they never offer any answers when you ask them questions? Why the hell would someone want to join a place where you don't get answers...especially if you ask questions that are semi anti-usana questions? A smart person would get all the information and all there questions answered before they join something. If you get vague answers or fishy answers, don't join.
ReplyDeleteIn response to "You still haven't stated where you gotten this information from. Yes, It is true that new distributors who joined today have access to the same information, and you said that you've had distributors themselves ask you questions and you provided them information. So where did you get this information from?"
ReplyDeleteYou misunderstood what I wrote. I wrote "Over the years I have had many distributors ask me questions and have even provided valuable information." The distributors have provided me valuable information. Obviously the information for the chart came from a distributor. You yourself seem to be a distributor or a corporate insider and know full and well what the "Hall of Fame" section provides.
In response to "Also, I don't believe you are aware of the policies and procedures for a usana distributorship, that if any USANA distributorship is not enrolled or has their autoship turned on for a given 4 week period, they are considered inactive in the business. Hope that helps."
I know the policies and procedures better than most USANA distributors do. I've read through the 18 years of revisions to policies and procedures. I know that when a distributor does not PERSONALLY purchase at least $100 worth of product during a 4 week period, that distributor loses all their Group Sales Volume they have built up, is no longer commission eligible, and their distributorship is set to an "Inactive" state. You don't seem to know what you are talking about because the Policies and Procedures does not require distributors to be on autoship in order to remain active. I believe what you meant was that if the distributor fails to make their 100 Personal Sales Volume (PSV) purchases, they become inactive like I just described.
And what are you talking about when you wrote "... if any USANA distributorship is not enrolled or ..."??? That makes no sense because if someone has not enrolled, why would they appear in any USANA database? Do you mean if a distributor does not RENEW their distributorship each year? If that's the case, how does that help your argument anyway? Over 600,000 USANA distributors have never received a commission check and that's a fact. You do understand that USANA reveals in their distributor earnings statement that a little over 60% of USANA distributors are unranked and have not received a commission. USANA is not talking about past distributors from 10 years ago. They are talking about CURRENT distributors. So, yes, 600,000+ distributors have not received a single penny in commission.
Lets put it this way: A new distributor could enroll with USANA, sign up 1,000 preferred customers, and not earn a SINGLE DIME. This distributor would be one of those 600,000+ distributors. How can this happen? If that distributor refuses to personally purchase over $100 worth of product every four weeks, that's how. Why does USANA force their distributors to make these 28 day purchases? Because if they didn't, USANA would go out of business in less than 3 months. It's part of their scheme. This required purchase is USANA's primary source of income, and is the primary source of funds used for commissions. The FTC has stated that this is illegal.
Good answer.. Anonymous got slapped. Watch Dog, I'm assuming that you already know this but trying to talk someone who is deep into an MLM company is like talking to a wall. They are brainwashed and will basically regurgitate answers they have heard from other reps whether or not it makes sense. Your site will hopefully help people who are on the fence or who have just started.
ReplyDeleteYou're absolutely right about the force purchases to get paid scheme. Without it, Usana wouldn't last long. People making money with this company or another other MLM company will never agree to letting reps decide for themselves on how much of the products to buy each month. Yet, they claim their products are the best and they would buy it even if they weren't with the company. They wouldn't for a second dare to take off the purchasing requirement because they know for a fact that products aren't worth the price and that their paychecks would quickly diminish.
I DARE any MLM company out their to do this. Prove that your products are superior and that your prices are "reasonable". No takers? I didn't think so. P*ssies
Guest, notice how the Usana person didn't really answer questions, but he/she kept asking more questions and keep on asking the same questions.
ReplyDeleteI think that even if the data given above is not true, the whole Usana thing is fishy. I don't need data to tell me that something is a scam. Though, it's helpful for people who are going to do research on them.
Personally, I hate their whole, "I'm in this to help people" bullshit! If you really want to help someone, go volunteer your time, donate your money, be someone's exercise buddy, or even sell me your products (if you believe in it so much). BUT don't tell me that joining Usana will help my love ones. If anything, I'm hurting them by annoying them and taking their hard earn money.
Seriously, the next time I hear someone say, "come with me to a health presentation," friend or foe, I will punch you in the face. I would rather have you try to sell me Usana products than get me to come to a cult meeting. No thank you!
Haha... "I want to help people"... I've heard this from my Usana friends :)
DeleteLoad of rubbish.
they would help your loved ones smarty. im guessing you've never tried the products. and doing the business is helping people... you simply see the miniscule surface. and as for donating money? what donating your pennies? if you dont even have the means to donate a sufficient amount of money, that's just called pitying someone. its funny because the top metwork marketers are usually the ones that are even able to donate their time and money because they have so much of it. so maybe one day, you could think about doing usana and actually have the ability to donate and help others. as for now have fun at your J.O.B or Just Obey Boss because you' are and always will be Just Over Broke if you stay there.
ReplyDeleteIn what sad world are you living in? Why the f***ing hell would I want to do Usana? I would rather work at a low paying job, then to isolate my friends and family, spend all my time going to cult meetings, and waste money on products that may or may not work for me. At least I know I will get a paycheck and NEVER in a million years will my boss ask me to buy crap in order for me to get my paycheck OR ask me to go out and find suckers to join. FYI, I'm at work right now and I'm here getting paid. My boss is not around and even if he was, he does not breath down my neck. And speaking of obeying your boss, don't you have to do what the people in your upline tell you to do? They might not be your boss, but you're out recruiting and selling just like they want you to. BUT THEY'RE SMART BY MAKING IT SEEM LIKE THEY'RE NOT TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO. I don't care for the products but I WILL NEVER EVER DO USANA AND RECRUIT MY LOVED ONES. I love them that much to not involve them in a cult.
ReplyDeleteAnd out of all the things that I said you can do to help your loved ones, you choose to talk about donating money? Hello?! If you don't have money, then go volunteer your time, be a mentor, teach someone how to be healthy, be someone health buddy..etc. Donating is not my only example you moron! If you have money to help, then go for it. If you don't, there are many, many ways to help someone. And if I already don't have money, then why the freaking hell will I pay for Usana products, which cost an arm and a leg. FYI, I've tried your product, it's okay. I could use an approved similar product that would cost less and get the same or better results. And I know people in Usana, they obey their upline more than I obey my boss and they don't even make as much as me, but they sure do more work than me. But they like to pretend they have money. Sad...
I pity YOU. They got you so brainwash, it's sad and pathetic.
Yes, top network marketers make a ton of money, but at what cost? How many dreams and hopes were destroyed in the process? Losing your money is one thing but believing in a false reality to the point where you alienate yourself from non-MLMers and see everyone as a walking dollar sign then seeing it all get crushed once reality hits is way worse.
ReplyDeleteYou claim the product is so good. Honestly ask yourself if you would continue buying the products even if you didn't make any money with this company. How long would it be until you finally cancel. Now ask what % of reps would buy $100 worth of products each month if they were given an option to choose how much they can buy and still be eligible for a paycheck. We all know the answer to this.
When you constantly surround yourself with people who walk, talk, and breathe MLM, it's really hard to take a step back and think logically. You get into business to make money. If you're not making money, then it's only logical to change course. It doesn't mean you failed. You're merely taking a different route to the same goal: financial freedom.
In an MLM, if you quit, you're seen as a failure/quitter/loser. Even if you're not making anything and even getting into debt, you're seen as a winner with determination as long as you stay with the company. Since you probably alienated yourself from friends who didn't want to join, quitting becomes hard. You don't want to look like a fool who got scammed so you stay surrounded with people who are "just like you" because it's easy and comfortable even though logically and financially, it doesn't make any sense.
If you've been in MLM long enough, your logic will be tainted so don't rely on that. Instead, look at your income. Then, look at your downline's income. I'm talking about real money here, not value like becoming a better person and meeting new people. Let's face it. In MLM, the more you make, the more respect you get. The longer you've gone without recruiting anyone, the less important you will become.
There is more than one way to be financially free folks. If you're good at networking and don't mind seeing most of the people in your downline not make much money, then MLM might be for you. If not, look for something that suits you better.
Anyone who sees you as a quitter or a loser for getting out of their downline even though you're still going to climb that mountain towards financial freedom (just using a different path) is either only interested in making money from you or is brainwashed and actually believe MLM is the only way to be financially free.
MLM/NM is a Business Opportunity like any other franshise business, it ain't some quick rich scheme when there is a ligit product involved. Its like any other business, you'd have a much of morons talking shit cos they just couldn't venture into the same business as you are, they rather be comfortable with the "nothing" then having a vision in their life. The reason why people get into a NM/MLM instead of a tradisional business, its due to the SUPPORT received by peers and management team. I am betting most of the whinning pots up above, never ventured into business ever. So quit pretending like you know what is it all about?
ReplyDeleteI personally know people that have made millions with USANA. Why would anyone look down and try desperately to prove a business structure wrong when it's obviously doing great things? I'm not sure of Mr. Watchdog's motives but they sure aren't pro-active in a world where we're all seeking success. I'd bet that he/she is an active associate =))
ReplyDeleteThey made it by lying to other people, and they are at the top of the pyramid scheme.
DeleteThe MLM is a business model where most people lose money so that a few people at the top can earn money. Map out the compensation plan my friend.
Just because there are products involved, it doesn't mean that it's not a scam. That's dumb to even say that! I believe you're the moron for getting sucked into Usana. How many people did you hurt along the way? How many people did you sell this dream to? And fyi, my career is in business AND I do have the SUPPORT from my team and higher up. And no, I do not work for Usana. Technically, I am free to do as I need to at my job. I can pitch an idea and my boss will take me to pursue it. I have a lot of opportunities to grow and move up. I get support from my boss when it comes to how certain things should be done. But what's most important is that my work does not involve scamming people into joining me. I do not try to force my friends and family to be a part of my company. I do not try to sell anything to my friends and family. I'm not saying that I don't sell stuff, but I don't force my close ones to buy anything from me nor will I force them to go to useless meetings. On top of that, I get full benefits. And at the end of the day, I still maintain good relationships with people and I don't feel like an ass. But you're right, I don't understand what it's like to be an ass and lose my loved ones. Usana people can do that.
ReplyDeleteName some people who made millions because I haven't seen them on the news. Obviously those people know how to scam other people really well. Everyone wants to be successful in life and there are many ways to do so. Usana's way is to get as many people to join as they can so they can buy the products and get more people to join. A legit (that's how you spell it, btw) way will not do that. Sorry, but Usana's business practice is very shady. You have to be a complete failure in life and a dumbass to believe that Usana is the way to live. News flash! Unless you're willing to push and push the people around you to be in it, you will not be successful. Unless you're willing to sell people a dream of making it big, you will not be successful. Unless you're willing to lose friends and family, you will not be successful in Usana.
It makes me sad that people like you can't see this. And don't give me the bullshit about helping my loved ones. I love them enough to tell them that being in Usana is a big waste of time and money. You guys make me laugh.
It is an option so why would you angry with Usana? Usana only offers people who wants to build business through this product. Yes this product is costly but it can help by improving people's health right. You can't find similarity between Usana product and others. Totally different in terms of quality. If you want to consume this product, just go on, if you are depending on medical product, its up to you. Usana just offers you a better product for your health.
ReplyDeleteSelling this product just we called it as a business. Every business show statistic like this. People who are succeed in business world are just 1:100. People who are failed just like they close their shop forever. Same like when you are entering into a shop and someone (promoter) will come to you and explain the good of his product. It is just a normal for me. No need to argue about this.
Build a network is just like you are doing branches. You open your own shop and you want to franchise it. So you need people. You need managers to manage your shops. Come on, business and work with boss is really different. No need to find its similarity. Just a waste.
I don't care if you sell Usana products or you want to build your own business. What I care about is you people trying to get me to join in on it. What I care about is how you've sucked people I know in and now they're trying to suck me and more people in. You believe in your products? Go for it! I would love to hear you sell me your products and not some crazy dream about being rich if I join.
ReplyDeleteAnd if I do want to open my own shop for my products and hire people to help, I WOULD ACTUALLY PAY THEM FOR THEIR WORK.
The Usana reps posting comments are the ones who don't make money :) So you know some people who made millions with Usana. I know people in the porn industry who make a ton of money too. Heck, Madoff made tons as well. So what? What does knowing a millionaire have to do with how much you make? There are people who made millions selling $1 items.
ReplyDeleteThat's an argument so many MLM people make. They meet some guy or girl in the company that makes a bunch of money and drives a fancy car and all of the sudden, they talk like they themselves are big earners. None of the reps here can prove that it's not all about recruiting because it is. Name a top Usana or MLM rep who made a ton of money without a downline.
Like other wise people here has pointed out, if you really believe the products you sell are that great, why even have a monthly minimum purchasing requirement? Oh right, because if there wasn't you all wouldn't be able to make much money because the reality is that most people only buy the products because it's attached to a "business".
Watchdog, do you happen to know if that numbers of associates who earn a paycheck include those who buy the biggest package and automatically gets a check?
ReplyDeleteOf course, in reality, they're just getting $100 or whatever off but a check is still a check and can be used to inflate the numbers of associates who "earned" a check.
Just read this off another one of your sites...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mlmpyramid.com/USANA_Distributor_Intent.html
How they can say only 12% of associates join with the intent to make money is laughable. Even if they said 70%, it would still be laughable. How do you even conduct this survey? If you ask a Usana associate whether they are in it for their health or for money, of course most will say for their health since they don't want to sound greedy.
Simple solution to all of this is to cancel the monthly purchasing requirement. By doing this, Usana will show that they are confident that their products are reasonably priced and that most of their associates will continue to buy over $100 worth of products each month because they're in it for their "health".
Usana reps keep talking about how great their vitamins are and how it's all about helping people improve their health. What a bunch of bull. Stand up and prove it by demanding the purchasing requirement be eliminated and letting the associates and customers of Usana decide for themselves how much of the products is worth buying each month.
"We have the best vitamins and it's cheap relative to its quality. Most of our associates join to get discounted prices on the products and to improve their health."
Pretty words, but action speaks louder than words.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou Wrote "do you happen to know if that numbers of associates who earn a paycheck include those who buy the biggest package and automatically gets a check?"
This is part of USANA's scam to inflate the numbers. You are referring to the Professional Package that new distributors can purchase for $1250: http://www.usana.com/media/File/Prospecting%20page/Tools/US/USANABusiness/US-ENProfessionalPacks.pdf
These new distributors instantly receive a $100 commission check (FOR THEIR OWN PURCHASE) without even having to sell a dime of product. This inflates the number of associates who receive a commission check. Unfortunately, USANA does not disclose any information to figure out how many associates receive this special commission.
BTW, this commission actually violates the Amway Rule which was determined in the 1970s as well as violating USANA's own policies and procedures!
USANA's Policies & Procedures states:
QUOTE
5.1 Product Sales
...The following sales requirements must be satisfied in order for Associates to be eligible for commissions:
- Associates must develop or service at least five customers every four-week rolling period. For Associates who elect to be Distributors, these customers can be either Retail Customers, Preferred Customers, or any combination of the two. For all other Associates, these customers must be Preferred Customers.
END QUOTE
This is proof that USANA's policies are only in place to provide lip service to federal regulators.
People who say over 90% of new businesses fail within the first year or three are misinformed. This is likely a statistic thrown out by people who try to get other to buy into their business system.
ReplyDeleteNetwork marketers love to use this "fact". The truth is that less than 50% fail and the numbers are actually closer to 30%. On top of that, the word "fail" is thrown out of context. People can close shop for a variety of reasons, not necessarily because they went broke. Some sell for a profit, some move on to better things, and some simply want to go back to working for someone else.
Also, some industries have a higher failure rate than others. For example, the restaurant business is very competitive and has a higher failure rate than most businesses. HOWEVER, over a 10 year span, only 70% of restaurants fail. Yes, that's a high number but that's less than 90% and we're talking about 10 years, not 1 or 3 years.
The fact that over 90% of network marketers fail to make a profit is actually HUGE when you look at the real data. This just makes joining a network marketing company a poor business decision.
So STOP spreading the stupid 90% of businesses fail myth around. I would recommend to any network marketer to research any claims that your upline tells you before stating those things as fact yourself, otherwise, you'll look like an idiot.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI've not read through all of this so excuse me if I repeat what's already been said.
I'd like to start by saying that if the person who created USANA Watch Dog put as much effort into USANA as they have this site then they'd be very successful, healthy, happier and rich by now and more inclined towards positive change, rather than bringing down something they don't fully understand.
Anyone who hasn't tried the supplements and facial products can't really make any comments that are going to be taken seriously, can they? The only people that will take it seriously are the types like LL who sit on forums like this, during work hours, basically being paid to rant about something (that I am assuming has nothing to do with their work?) rather than taking pride in their job, working hard and having respect for their boss who quite clearly doesn't 'breathe down their neck' sounds like a doddle really LL, you must be really proud of yourself?
The products are fairly expensive, yes. But other companies, such as Clarins sell their products at high prices. Products that are full of parabens and are damaging to our health, much like many products out there that are pumped full of chemicals. I used to suffer from something similar to Fibromyalgia/Mild ME. I couldn't do too much, for example working 9-5 would wipe me out and I couldn't do anything in the evenings, I would also have to sleep for a lot of the weekend. Since taking USANA supplements I'm able to be busy day and night in the week and still have energy for the weekend, the burning pain I used to feel in my joints whilst drying my hair, walking up stairs etc has mostly gone. I feel so much better from taking them. The proof is in the pudding as they say. The only way to find out is to try them, join the cult(!) and take/use them religiously because they truly are amazing products that are well worth the money. I don't mind spending 50p a day to make my health more vibrant. ;-)
To the anonymous above:
ReplyDeleteNo vitamin company would dare claim that their products can cure this or that. Why? Because they know it won't. I tried Usana products as well for a few months and besides having neon colored urine, I didn't notice anything different. However, I have been using Centrum for some time before that so that might be the reason. I'm also quite active. I would guess that if you never took any vitamins in the past and you're overall a lazy bum who gets no exercise, taking Usana or most other vitamins would give you noticeable results.
It could also be because I don't work for the company and I'm not constantly surrounded by reps telling me miracle stories of how the vitamins helped them which might give me a sort of placebo effect. Also, I bought the vitamins on Ebay for a much lower price. And no, they weren't expired and yes, they are the real thing.
I'm guessing that many reps failed to sell these vitamins at retail price or even wholesale price so they were left with the choice of selling them on Ebay at a loss.
To Luther:
ReplyDeleteHow old are you? Are you in your Twenties? Thirties? A teenager? Or are you in your forties or fifties and above?
If you're someone young, of COURSE you wouldn't feel anything. Your body is still so strong and resilient (unless your health is crippled due to some unfortunate reasons).
And of course no vitamin company dares to guarantee that their products can cure things, because they don't "cure", they "prevent". Get the idea right. Supplements aren't meant to cure, but to prevent. And taking supplements only after you've problems isn't the idea of supplementation.
Do you think a healed joint is a placebo effect? Do you think the strengthening of bones is a placebo effect? Do you think a stronger heart and a healthier liver is a placebo effect?
These things are impossible to be placebo. If it happens, it happens. If the body remains weak, then it's weak. "Feeling better" due to placebo effect wouldn't be able to change the fact of what the supplements have done to the body, be it effective or ineffective.
Don't guess. If you want to find out, go research on why people sell on Ebay.
Of course, USANA policy is against selling on Ebay, let alone slashing prices. But if I really want to guess, I would say that those distributors are "forced" to sell on Ebay because they don't know how to sell. (Basically they're not suitable to do MLM.)
And how could anyone say that they sell on Ebay because they have too much stock?! The autoship isn't even enough to give distributors so much stock that they can't sell fast enough. And if they really can't sell for whatever reason, they can just stop purchasing (and stop being a distributor since they can't do the business anyway.)
On a side note, products received from Ebay have no guarantee from the company, and we never know how many ways are there to tamper with a product.
To USANA Watch Dog:
ReplyDeleteWhen you said 99% of distributors lose money, do you take into account those "sleeping" distributors?
There are a lot of "distributors", joining for whatever reasons, who "sleep" and remain inactive for... a long time. They wouldn't sell, and they wouldn't make purchases. They're just there. If they don't sell, of course they wouldn't earn anything, and of course they would appear to "lose money". But bear in mind they're not buying either. So the truth is that the statistics may not be what they seem, and what we infer from them may not be correct.
A lot of people joined USANA, but a lot of people quit as well due to competitions, the realization that MLM isn't suitable for one's style, the intention to "sleep", etc.
There are many reasons.
We cannot say 99% of distributors not earning enough, and so they lose money, and so USANA is a scam. That's laughable.
As mentioned, not earning enough doesn't mean they're making purchases. If they don't buy, they don't lose money. And if they want to activate back their distributorship, buy 2 autoships and all their previous points can be gained back instantly.
AND, the compensation plan is out there under the sun for everybody to see. Distributors would already have been briefed about it. They should already know that in the beginning stages, their profits wouldn't be quite enough to cover their costs of the autoship. They should already know that the profits in MLM is usually exponential, not linear. They should already know all this, and USANA doesn't hide all this from distributors. If they agree to join and doesn't make a profit due to whatever reason, it's funny that they quit afterwards and badmouth USANA.
I'm not sure what kind of experiences you used to have with USANA over your side, but in where I live, talks and meetings held are usually about the products, and how the products can help in preventing health problems. NEVER have I seen any meeting centered on how to recruit people using tricks and brainwashing techniques. I, for one, wouldn't do that myself, because to do that is to neglect the quality and strengths of the products, and because to do that means that the products are so bad that I have to resort to such dirty tricks, which is untrue.
Again to USANA Watch Dog:
ReplyDeleteIn response to this...
"Lets put it this way: A new distributor could enroll with USANA, sign up 1,000 preferred customers, and not earn a SINGLE DIME. This distributor would be one of those 600,000+ distributors. How can this happen? If that distributor refuses to personally purchase over $100 worth of product every four weeks, that's how. Why does USANA force their distributors to make these 28 day purchases? Because if they didn't, USANA would go out of business in less than 3 months. It's part of their scheme. This required purchase is USANA's primary source of income, and is the primary source of funds used for commissions. The FTC has stated that this is illegal."
Your example is funny.
If the distributor manages to really sign up 1000 preferred customers, he/she has no reason in the world not to maintain autoship.
Firstly, with 1000 preferred customers, this distributor would have earned so much that the cost of the autoship is insignificant. He/she will have absolutely no problem paying for it.
Secondly, if the distributor is so into USANA that he/she manages to get 1000 preferred customers, then this distributor must very much like USANA's products. If he/she believes in USANA's products, it makes perfect sense to buy some for him/herself and for him/herself to use the products.
If this distributor doesn't believe in the products but just want the money (and recruit people with this motive), even I would personally ask this distributor to quit.
I wouldn't call it a "scheme", because it's pretty reasonable that to get the commission, one has to contribute to the pool of money. And it's true, if distributors don't contribute, the company would die.
But it's fine to buy. After all, they're buying products, not paying for nothing in return. And if they believe in the products, of course they would want to buy and take the products themselves anyway.
About the FTC's statement, I would say it's more applicable to product-based pyramid schemes with products that have little to no value. Yes, I wouldn't deny the existence of those pyramid schemes that use products to disguise their nature.
But if the products have REAL and a SIGNIFICANT amount of value, so much so that people are willing to buy the products, then perhaps the applicability, in this case, of the FTC's statement has to be reconsidered.
I actually took the vitamins for around 4 months without knowing much about the company, my sister sent them over from Oz for me to try and initially I was really sceptical, until I started feeling the effects and wanted to find out more. It's only more recently, because the supplements made such an impact on my health, that I have been more interested in the company.
ReplyDeleteI've always been slim with a high metabolism I'm always running around and have earned the nick name 'Tigger' because of it! I love doing Thai Chi, Yoga, playing footie, tennis, swimming etc but it's frustrating when your body doesn't want to play all the time and you end up with your joints burning and being absolutely wiped out for a few days after exerting yourself. It's hard to explain but trust me it's not down to laziness, I've got too many fun things to be doing to be optionally lazy!
I'm surprised that the supplements didn't make a difference to you at all, were they sealed when you got them? I hope you weren't scammed into buying something that wasn't a USANA product, how would you know if they were the real thing? Anyway, each to their own I'm not trying to persuade you to 'believe' in them! If you don't want to take them that's cool but you should appreciate that they can really help others and not try and put down something that's a really good health product.
p.s I don't think USANA claims to be able to cure anything?
ReplyDeleteOnce again to USANA Watch Dog:
ReplyDeleteI'd like to add something, about the minimum monthly purchase requirement.
Perhaps this reasoning can explain it further:
Firstly, if there's no monthly requirement, and every distributor doesn't buy things, but still continue to recruit people without selling products, it's downright an illegal pyramid scheme, and the company would die anyway.
Secondly, if a distributor works, he/she WILL be selling products (together with recruiting people). If he/she doesn't even buy ANY product, that's a good sign that he/she isn't working (and thus is "inactive"). (If you don't have any product at hand, how do you sell and do the business?) If you don't work in a company, would you get paid? Hence, the monthly requirement to qualify for commission.
Lastly, we all know that a MLM company that emphasizes recruitment more than selling products is more likely to be an illegal pyramid scheme. Recruitment without selling products is suspicious. Thus, if there is a monthly purchase requirement, the distributors HAVE to sell products, if they don't want to take them themselves, for whatever reason. If they want to take them, then they'd most probably not have enough stock to sell (with just the minimum monthly purchase) and would have to order for more. In this sense, there is an active process of selling products going on, and not just recruit and recruit and recruit.
To the Usana dumbass who called me out:
ReplyDeleteOh, don't be jealous that I have a job that actually pays when I work. I'm damn proud of my job and so are my boss. Obviously, you have never worked for a good company before or else you would know what it feels like to do work and still have freedom. I might not be my own boss, but I'm pretty damn good at what I do.
But even if that's not the case, at least I don't try to sell dreams to people I love. I don't scam anyone or recruit anyone. Don't hate on me because I have a real job that pays and still have time to do what I want to do. Are you proud of scamming people? Are you proud of having people close to you hate you? Are you proud of recruiting suckers to do the work for you?
As for the vitamins, I don't know anything about that. I just referring to the business part of Usana.
to everyone against MLM...
ReplyDeleteyou are looking at USANA at the wrong perspective ... an employee's point of view ... USANA is a business .... and like any other business .. you have operational costs ...
I have a restaurant business and mind you it takes a lot of money just to put up one. And once it's operational, you still have to 'PAY' rentals, utilities, salaries, taxes, etc ... just to keep your business going.
Comparing that to the USANA business, it costs next to nothing in putting up and maintaining a business. Of course, not every business will be successful and no true successful businessman made it with just one shot at business. I have been in business for more than a decade and yes i 'failed' a number of times ... but the rewards of having your 'OWN' business still outweighs the 'failures'. But as Ive said, not anyone is cut out to be a businessman just like not everyone is cut out to be a successful networker.
I didn't join USANA because of the 'financial' freedom ... I joined it primarily because of the products ... and mind you, i dont have a hard time 'convincing' my friends/family because i am a living testimony to the effectivity of the products. Ive tried practically every supplements there is out there, I am just plainly amazed at the result it has on me.
And as a 'side' business, the earnings are not bad either. I definitely earn more than the required maintenance but then again, all business has operating expenses. So this business gives me positive income.
To LL:
ReplyDeleteThe products are a huge part of USANA. Leaving out the products and only talk about how the business "scams" people is exactly what I call "selective blindness".
People who see USANA as a scam are most likely people who have never ever understood (and probably never will) the quality and strengths of USANA products.
Everywhere I go, whenever I see a person says USANA is a scam, that person can only talk about how it is a scam from the business perspective. Never before have I met someone who can argue with me about how the products "scam" people. Well, because the products don't.
The business plan is built on the products. Attacking the business plan while ignoring the products is plain ridiculous.
===================
And to those who say they have a good and proper job and don't have to give a damn about any MLM company, well I'm glad for them.
Hope they have health, wealth, and freedom all the way.
Of course the products are a huge part of Usana. Without the products, recuiters would just be going around signing people up for nothing and taking their money. Usana needs the product to scam people. What I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure if the products are good or not. Some people say it is and some say it isn't. Maybe it's all in their mind that it's working. If you believe in something hard enough, you can make yourself think that it's working.
ReplyDeleteIf Usana doesn't have people going around pestering me and people around me, I would consider trying their products or starting my own business. I understand that you have to get word out there, but if I say NO once, I don't mean come back later. If Usana didn't have unpaid, cult-like meetings and putting stupid quotes on facebook and worshipping their "leaders or mentors" like they're their gods, I would consider it. My boss inspires me, help me in every way they can and someone I look up to, but I don't act like everything they say is like the word of god. Nor do I go to meetings and not get paid. How can you not see how shady it is? Are you that blind? If seems to me that people in Usana hate the world deep down, but they hide it with fake optimistic.
Critical Reader,
ReplyDeleteSo you're telling me that no healthy Usana reps under the age of 40 are out there claiming that the vitamins helped them feel better? If there are, then according to you, they're lying since vitamins are about prevention.
As for the people selling on Ebay, you said they "sell on Ebay because they don't know how to sell". Are you saying that you are able to sell these products to ACTUAL customers or do you mean they don't know how to recruit? If you really can sell these vitamins to actual customers and not reps, and you make more money from these sales compared to recruiting people, then I bow down to you for you are a master at the art of sales.
I would like to know what percentage of Usana reps can actually go out and sell these vitamins at retail price without the attachment of the business. Isn't that why you people recruit, to sell vitamins?
You said buying products each month as a distributor is necessary to "stay active" because it shows that you're still selling products. So you're telling me that Usana couldn't come up with a way for reps to have the products sent to the customers directly from the company, say, with an order form sent in by the rep? Regular sales people don't have to purchase inventory. They just sell, fill out order forms, and have the products sent out to the customer.
By having a purchasing requirement, the company is able to make sure that a certain number or products is sold each month. This is the genius of MLM companies. They know they can't sell many products at retail price based on the product alone so they have to attach a business to it to make the purchase more appealing.
If you really believe it's about selling products to actual customers and not mainly about recruiting, then I know you're not making much money with MLM.
To LL:
ReplyDeleteIn one of my previous comments here, I wrote this to USANA Watch Dog:
"I'm not sure what kind of experiences you used to have with USANA over your side, but in where I live, talks and meetings held are usually about the products, and how the products can help in preventing health problems. NEVER have I seen any meeting centered on how to recruit people using tricks and brainwashing techniques. I, for one, wouldn't do that myself, because to do that is to neglect the quality and strengths of the products, and because to do that means that the products are so bad that I have to resort to such dirty tricks, which is untrue."
And I'm going to say the same thing to you.
I feel that it's unfortunate that you had such encounters with USANA. I never experienced anything like that at my side. No cult-like meetings. No worshiping like idiots. It's almost always about the products, how they work, and how they prevent health problems.
It's not "in the mind". There is no such thing.
I've also addressed this placebo issue before already in one of my previous comments. If your body is physically messed up, do you think ANYTHING can make your body feel good? Even if you feel good, if something inside is already wrong, it WILL remain wrong, and the consequences of that problem will eventually manifest, like it or not.
In short, if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. We can't just believe something hard and it will happen. If it's really so, people with diabetes can even be cured with a sugar pill.
Before you even talk about whether the products work, you need to consider the manufacturing process (along with the research and formulas). This is where USANA shines the most.
Back to your experiences with USANA.
I don't understand why you think that attending meetings should get you... paid. Meetings and talks are meant to educate you, share experiences, discuss problems, and so on. You attend because you want to enhance your knowledge about health, about USANA's products, and that sort of thing. I don't see why you should get paid for that.
(This isn't traditional business. Meetings in traditional business is for the company. Meetings in MLM, or USANA in this case, is for yourself.)
Oh no I'm not at all blind. Most of the time I'm a skeptic. It takes a lot to convince me.
And no matter how I look at it, the USANA in where I live is in no way shady. I can't speak for the USANA in your place though.
To Luther:
ReplyDeleteFrom the things you mentioned, I can clearly see you've never been a part of the USANA business. For if you had, you would have known that there are 3 kinds of prices a distributor can sell products at, that the right way to do this business is to turn potential customers into customers and then to turn customers into distributors THROUGH the confidence in the products (as opposed to "selling dreams"), and that it is in fact a common practice for customers to fill up a form and have the products sent over to them.
But before that, I'll begin with your very first point.
Sigh. "Not feeling anything" is a general statement. Prevention is about getting ready since young. How are they lying?
Even though young people wouldn't feel immediate reactions, the supplememts ARE already working inside them. And by "wouldn't feel immediate reactions" I mean physical pain (due to detoxification process caused by the supplements). Over a period of a month to a few months, other effects can also be observed, but that's different for different individuals. For example, a person with dark eye circles may see them going away. A person with minor skin infection may recover. A person with unexplained muscle pain may cease to experience it. When the immune system is up, lots of things get cured by themselves. All these are observable effects in young people, but to have BIG reactions is very rare (because their bodies are not as worn out as older people's). And that's what I meant.
Your second point.
Yes. I can sell them to ACTUAL customers. These customers are NOT currently a distributor. (Of course. A distributor doesn't need me to sell to them anyway.)
About the Ebay thingy, both. They don't know how to sell to actual customers, AND THUS they don't know how to recruit. (The keyword here is "thus".) If you only sell the business and "dreams", you would most probably annoy people and lose friends. That's pretty useless and isn't the right way to work. The longevity of a company depends FIRST on its PRODUCTS, and then only on its business plan. The products are everything. A distributor should sell the products first, get non-distributors to experience the effects for themselves (and they'll naturally have confidence in the products), and then IF THEY FEEL LIKE IT, they can become a distributor. This is the right way, and this is why I said "thus" above. If they don't know how to sell products, they most probably would fail in recruiting people.
With this approach, recruitment isn't about recruitment itself, but about selling products. People become a distributor not because of the business, but because of the products. If they come in due to the products, what's wrong with recruiting them? (You're making recruitment sounds evil.)
There are 3 prices: autoship price, wholesale price, retail price. Depending on the distributor, if he or she feels like it, the wholesale price can be used instead of the retail one.
And as I said, what's wrong with recruiting people who like the products? You're saying we shouldn't recruit customers who WANT to be distributors?
(Continues in the next post...)
(...continued from above)
ReplyDeleteNow, about sending products over to the customers straight from the company, this is only a good option for customers who already have confidence in USANA products. If a person is still skeptical, or just to want "try it out", the distributor WILL need to sell products separately. In fact, this is what happens most of the time before the form is filled to have the products sent over.
I understand that for some people, the idea of enforcing a rule to force them keep buying a minimum amount every month is repulsive.
But personally, I have no problem with that. This is because I myself want to take them, my family wants to take them, and they're not even enough for me to sell to others. The default products that come with the autoship are insufficient, if a distributor is really doing the business. And, this is what many working distributors feel.
I don't understand how adding a business would make the products more appealing. If anything, the business might scare people off if they're skeptical towards the products in the first place!
So, as I said, people join because of the products. A person who joins not for the products would most probably not last long.
So you're saying that you don't live in Northern California? Why idiots worship the ground Aaron Dinh and Nancy On walks on? Everything they say is like the word of god. I'm sure you know who they are, at least.
ReplyDeleteAnd it should be about the products. If you 100% believe in it, then you should 100% promote it, not try to recruit people because I was told that the more people you recruit, you'll move up. See, I was never asked to buy any products. I was asked mostly to join. I was told that I should join to help out my friends and family. I was told that I can retire at an early age.
And that's good for you that you don't use dirty tricks. What I hate are the ones who believe that there are no more jobs out there and they're a slave to the clock and their boss and that education is a scam. Then preach about how much money they make and all the cars they have or want to get and how much they're living the life. If this is about helping people, why brag about money? Like I said before, you CAN help people without having a lot of money or no money. So they're going around selling people the dream of making it big and then telling everyone else that they're going this to help people.
To LL:
ReplyDeleteYes, I don't live there. Lol. And thus, I've no idea who Aaron Dinh and Nancy On are.
About selling products and recruitment, you can read more about it in my comments to Luther above.
Recruitment shouldn't be just about recruitment. It should mainly be about the products that recruitment takes place. Recruitment isn't as evil as you think it is, depending on how you do it.
I'm surprised how you were never asked to buy any product while USANA's best part is the products. This clearly showed how much the people who approached you joined for money instead of the products. I doubt they would last long.
Somehow there seems to be such a big difference in culture across the world even when it's about the same thing: USANA. From how you described about the way the USANA distributors around you do their work, they reminded me of Amway's brainwashing, about how dreams and be achieved and such.
Critical Reader:
ReplyDeleteNice response. It sounds like you're a good person if this is exactly how you run your business. However, you need to realize that the people moving up in the rankings the fastest and getting the most recognition and making the most money are the ones who are focused on recruiting. It's not about the products. It's nice to have a great product behind the business but when it comes down to it, it's about selling the dream.
I'm curious to know what your rank in Usana is and how long you've been with the company. As I stated before, if what you say is really how you run your business, then I know you're not making all that much money and if you are, you have been with Usana for a very long time.
There's nothing wrong with recruiting itself. Companies do it all the time. However, when you recruit with the purpose of moving products and having your recruits repeat the process, then there is something wrong with that. Products should be bought out of demand for the actual product, not as a byproduct of a business. People leaving the company and canceling their autoship shows that the demand of the product is inflated.
This is why with MLM, it is a constant build and rebuild model. As the people in various sections of your downline inevitably quit, you will lose income and will need to rebuild. Why? Because most of your income is from the autoship of other distributors, not ordinary customers. If your income was based on TRUE customers, people who actually love the product itself, you really wouldn't have the problem of rebuilding because those customers will keep buying the products.
Obviously, this isn't the case with distributors and that's why someone, somewhere in your downline MUST continue to recruit in order for the whole business to work.
By the way, in response to your statement: "I don't understand how adding a business would make the products more appealing"... just look at how many people stop their autoship after they leave the company. Most people join the business for the money whether you believe it or not and the autoship cancel rate after they quit proves it.
Maybe you should look up how Aaron Dinh and Nancy On conduct business in NorCal and then tell me if you think they're cult-like and shady or not. Then maybe you will understand by we don't like Usana.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprise you haven't heard of them since all they do is go on Usana trips and conventions and meetings and brag about their cars and their rank.
Look them up on facebook. Seriously.
To LL:
ReplyDeleteI see. I'll look them up in my free time.
============================
To Luther:
Regarding "People leaving the company and canceling their autoship shows that the demand of the product is inflated"...
I quote my own response above towards USANA Watch Dog...
(START QUOTE)
When you said 99% of distributors lose money, do you take into account those "sleeping" distributors?
There are a lot of "distributors", joining for whatever reasons, who "sleep" and remain inactive for... a long time. They wouldn't sell, and they wouldn't make purchases. They're just there. If they don't sell, of course they wouldn't earn anything, and of course they would appear to "lose money". But bear in mind they're not buying either. So the truth is that the statistics may not be what they seem, and what we infer from them may not be correct.
A lot of people joined USANA, but a lot of people quit as well due to competitions, the realization that MLM isn't suitable for one's style, the intention to "sleep", etc.
There are many reasons.
(END QUOTE)
And now I want to add two more reason why people stop purchasing the products: (1) they've never been interested in the products to begin with, and (2) they're not technical enough to appreciate the strengths of the products.
About the second reason, because this is about supplements and nutrition, there are certain things that you need to be technical in order to appreciate. Some people cannot listen to any technical information at all, or they would automatically tune-out. So, if they can't appreciate the products, it's not surprising that they cancel their orders as they quit.
Even though I care about money, I just cannot bring myself to focus on recruiting without the focus on products.
And I must tell you, those who go up fast do not necessarily only focus on recruiting, because... what would happen if you join because of the business but with zero understanding of the products? Would you last long? Would you go fast? Would you go far? (Don't forget about the very strong resistance people have when you sell them "dreams". People who are easily convinced of those "dreams" are exceptions, not the majority.)
My bad but I don't think I would want to reveal my rank in USANA. However, the one thing I know is that in the country and area where I live, if I sell people "the opportunity to be rich" and "the dreams", I would have encountered a hell lot more resistance. I seriously don't believe this is faster than how I'm currently doing it.
(Continue in next post...)
(...continued from above.)
ReplyDeleteRegarding "However, when you recruit with the purpose of moving products and having your recruits repeat the process, then there is something wrong with that. Products should be bought out of demand for the actual product, not as a byproduct of a business", what is the rationale behind this opinion of yours?
But hey... if you see carefully, the way I'm doing my business is actually making the BUSINESS a by-product of the products.
Why would some of my downlines "inevitably quit"? If they're already making a fairly good amount of money, they have, generally, no reason to quit. Even if they quit due to some reasons, the people who quit wouldn't be many, because most of them already have experienced the effects of the products and have confidence in them anyway (maybe except those who quit).
It's not completely correct that you said income is based on distributors only. You DO know about "preferred customer" right? Non-distributors can get the autoship too, by becoming preferred customers. Yes, they won't recruit, but you can be sure you have that many points (money) from them every 4 weeks.
They ARE true customers. And distributor is sort of an "upgrade" of preferred customer (because they not only want to use the products, but want to do the business as well.)
Regarding "Obviously, this isn't the case with distributors and that's why someone, somewhere in your downline MUST continue to recruit in order for the whole business to work"...
You don't have to worry. There WILL always be people in one's downline who will continue to sell and recruit. (But I only mean those active ones, not "sleeping".)
About your last paragraph, I still don't understand why the BUSINESS would MAKE the PRODUCTS more APPEALING. But... I've already addressed above the issue of people quitting and canceling autoship.
Critical Reader...
ReplyDeleteDistributors "sleep" because they weren't able to make enough money to break even with the monthly purchasing requirements to stay active. Sure, some do it for other reasons but let's stop kidding yourself here. If they were making money, they wouldn't "sleep". This also shows that they were in it for the opportunity more than the products, otherwise, they would just continue to buy the products.
You basically said the 2 reasons why people stop purchasing products is 1) It's not about the products, it's about the money, and 2) People are too stupid to understand the complexity of the all superior Usana vitamin. I don't really understand how electricity works but I use it, why? Because it works and I can see it working. If you know taking vitamins is so important, then at the very least, you should convince people to take a much cheaper brand if they don't take Usana rather than nothing. But guess what, for almost all distributors, once their downline gets off of autoship, they could care less about their health.
You're wrong about the people who rise quickly up the rankings. It's ALL about recruiting. Sure, they might have some real customers here and there but not enough to be significant. You said people who focus on recruiting won't go far because they have zero understanding about the product. Really? Are you saying the products are so complex that you couldn't learn enough to seem knowledgeable in a week? If reps can't understand it within a week, how do you expect customers to in one sitting? Your logic here is flawed.
You said you don't believe that focusing just on recruiting is faster than what you're currently doing, focusing on getting real customers. You should probably do some research on this. I did a quick research on the 2 people LL mentioned and if I'm not mistaken, they are at the diamond level. Looking at the rankings chart and income level at that rank, that seems pretty high as well as hard to do. They also look young so I would guess they were able to do this within a few short years. You need to look into what is really going on.
People in your downline will inevitably quit because most won't make enough money to justify the monthly purchases. This is caused by not being good enough salespeople to sell expensive vitamins or not being able to recruit enough people. Based on how you run your business, you would probably see a lot less of this but at the same time, because of this, you're not making that much money.
Judging by your responses and how you said you run your business, I understand why some of this doesn't make sense to you. Some of the problems I pointed out are things someone with a small downline wouldn't necessarily see yet like the need to constantly recruit and rebuild. With any MLM, there are different ways of doing business within the same company. Recruiting is by far the fastest way to increase your income and that's why most people focus on it and it's also why this business gets a bad reputation.
To Critical Reader:
ReplyDeleteI'm impressed that you actually continue to come back and stand up for what you believe in. I don't think people have ever come back and try to really debate before.
Anyway, if people like Aaron Dinh and Nancy On don't exist, then maybe people won't be so turned off by Usana. You can tell that they are fake people. You should read the stories of the people who were tricked to go to a "health meeting" or to be taken to a Usana recruiting cult-like meeting. I barely see people mention the products. They use facebook to thank their mentor and put up stupid quotes than to talk about their products. If they post up all products and price and what it is and info on it, it would seem less shady to me. It just seems to me that it's about 80% recruiting and 20% products. Once in awhile, I see someone mention a product and that they're trying it out or it's coming in the mail, but that's it.
To Luther:
ReplyDeleteThere are certain things only people doing the business can see. (And you aren't doing the business if I'm not mistaken?) Your explanation of why some people "sleep" is incorrect. I'm not kidding myself. When I talk about "sleeping distributors", I wasn't talking about those who can't make enough money so they stop doing business and buying products. There is another reason why this happens: because distributors recruit people who have no intention in doing the business (and sometimes without interest in the products too) to begin with. There are a few purposes for this, one of which is to see whether or not the "sleeping" person can be "awaken". Because there is no panelty to be completely inactive, there is no problem doing this.
And for those who can't make enough money to cover the autoship, I've already talked about this to USANA Watch Dog. The compensation plan is out there under the sun for everyone to see. They should already know that in the beginning stages this will happen. Only after some time and after some effort can they start to break even. If they join, they should be prepared for this. Otherwise, don't join.
You're only partially right when you talk about the first of the two reasons I mentioned. Part of the first reason is due to "sleeping" distributors, and I've already explained this above in the first paragraph. The other part of the reason is what you said, "It's not about the products, it's about the money", and THAT'S EXACTLY why they fail, cancel their autoship, and quit. You're merely agreeing with me.
It's only easy for you to say distributors should CONVINCE people to at least take a much cheaper brand of supplement. Some people, after rejecting your offer, never want to hear about supplements from you again, or they're going to think you want to try again and sell to them.
I don't know how other distributors think, but for me, I know that the quality of the other cheaper brands' products is unknown (because those companies never disclose those information, and if your products have selling points, you would have disclosed them), and I know that some other products could even be harmful.
Not like I hate other products, but if you say distributors should at least educate people to take supplement (even though not USANA's), they have already done so when they explain USANA products to them. They will have already explained why it's important to take supplements in this time and age. Take or not, it's up to them.
I never said recruiting is not important. I was saying recruiting is as important as the products can be. And the "zero understanding" issue was a hypothetical example. You of course wouldn't have completely zero understanding of the products. No one is that stupid. What I was saying is that no matter how much understanding you have about the products, it's pointless if you don't talk about products but only business and "dreams" to customers.
And I also never said my way of doing is to focus (only) on getting real customers. I focus on recruiting too, but that's a by-product of getting customers. And your example of the 2 people LL mentioned cannot be applied in my case. Please don't generalize the American culture to the entire world. Culture (among other things) affects people's thinking, and how people think in where I live isn't so similar. (Just look at how much emphasis is put on product knowledge in where I live.)
And, it is because of people like those 2 LL mentioned that USANA's (or even the entire MLM industry's) reputation is tarnished. I don't want to be someone like that.
(Continues next post...)
(...continued from previous)
ReplyDeleteOnce again I'll tell you that people know (or should have already known) that it is only at the beginning stages that they can't make enough money to cover the monthly required purchase. How they sell the products and how they recruit determine whether they can continue doing the business. The prices of the products are a bit high, but not so high that they're unreasonable. While the prices are as such, quality and potency are guaranteed. Mind you, I've seen quite some other products with much higher prices but without the quality USANA delivers.
Why would I not see the recruit-and-rebuild issue? The thing is that if you have a small downline, such a thing is less of an issue, and if you have a large downline, the duplication as a whole is faster than people dropping out. And, with USANA, it isn't a problem even if the entire downline stop recruiting. Why? Because each and every distributor is making a minimum monthly purchase as you already know it. Don't forget, distributors are also customers, and customers can become distributors. Of course, people wouldn't stop recruiting though.
Focusing on recruiting wouldn't make this business's reputation bad, but focusing ONLY on recruiting (without much care about products) would.
To LL:
ReplyDeleteWell, I think it's unfair that such view of USANA in one country (US) is to be generalized to the entire USANA business in all countries when people from other countries come here, read about how USANA "is a scam", and believe it to be true in their own countries.
So I would want to come here and "balance it up a bit".
What you described about those 2 people is indeed very wrong in my eyes. In where I am, it's almost 100% products the first meeting with potential customers, and then see whether they're interested in the business. Talk business and attempt to sign people up during the first time and the distributor would most probably fail.
Of course I'm not in the business, otherwise, I wouldn't be debating with you. Let's see...
ReplyDelete1. On "sleepers", "...because distributors recruit people who have no intention in doing the business (and sometimes without interest in the products too) to begin with."
Are there really people out there will so much money that they would join without "intention" in doing the business or taking the products? Sorry, people sleep due to lack of income from the business. No one in their right mind would "go to sleep" if they made more than what they spent on the purchasing requirement each month. The problem is that most people never get to $100 a month.
2. "If they join, they should be prepared for this (paying autoship). Otherwise, don't join."
The problem here is that many people are blinded by the "dream". They see the possible riches without realizing how hard it is to sell expensive vitamins or to recruit. Most people aren't salespeople/recruiters, yet, in MLM, reps will recruit anyone willing to pay. How many people do you know actually turn down someone based on qualifications?
3. "It's not about the products, it's about the money"..."and THAT'S EXACTLY why they fail, you're merely agreeing with me".
Again, the people rising up the rankings the fastest and making the most money are the ones who focus on recruiting. Take McDonald's for example. We all know they DON'T have the best burgers in the world. Many people can make better burgers than them, yet, they make billions. How? It's all about the system. Usana wouldn't survive in the real market based just on its products alone. The demand just isn't there and that's why they need a system (MLM), to move products each month, bought by people who buy the amounts they are buying to stay "active". I may be wrong but at some point in the business, the $100 minimum goes up to $200 based on what I've read. If this is true, then it just makes it even clearer who the real "customers" are.
4. "And, with USANA, it isn't a problem even if the entire downline stop recruiting. Why? Because each and every distributor is making a minimum monthly purchase"
You're so wrong. Recruiting must ALWAYS go on. The people at the bottom don't have their own downlines meaning they aren't making money. Eventually, they will cancel their autoship making the people above them be in the same situation. This was the most surprising thing you have said so far. It was almost as you were saying as long as you're making money, who cares about the chumps down at the bottom. That or you really don't have a clear understanding of how this system works.
Yes, people like the ones LL mentioned might be the ones giving the industry a bad name, but they do what they do because the system rewards them for doing it. All of this is based around a system that encourages recruiting for reps to make money and for the company to sell products. I wouldn't be surprised if there are prizes for people who can recruit X amount of people within an X amount of time.
What I don't get is, how can people still follow Usana after seeing how high the distributor failure rates are?
ReplyDeleteI've approached many Usana distributors myself and I've seen their most common argument against failure rates.
They would cite "95% of new businesses fail within their first few years. Why are you picking on Usana?"
Well, that statistic is very true more or less. There are very high failure rates for any new business. Then what's wrong with Usana?
Because Usana markets that ANYONE can succeed in business. Their meetings preach that with a lot of determination, you can do ANYTHING with your own business. Usana promotes people to create their own business, while many of these people are completely ignorant of anything business related. This is why members often recruit friends and family members.
Usana urges people not to quit and places social pressure on them. And when financially unstable members have no choice but to quit, the rest of the members of that branch totally disown the quitting member. Suddenly, that member isn't considered "meant for the business" and just isn't "good at networking".
Don't you see? Usana members intelligently admit that starting your own business is tough and they recognize that you may lose money from this decision. They are totally correct in this aspect. But what they hypocritically do afterwards is recruit everyone that they know! Whether they are qualified or not!
Usana is a very successful MLM company, driven by the success stories of a select few and fueled by the money of the vast majority of failures.
I'm not basing the actions of two people on the whole company, but the company does reward them for doing well, such as going on a cruise and other vacations. And someone even said that the company gives their fancy cars. But I do know for sure that Usana sends them on trip and not just to Usana meetings and conventions in other states/cities. I know because they talk about it on their fb and they post up pictures of how well Usana treats them and tell their downline that if they work hard, they can get the same thing. Then they post pictures of their fancy cars and talk about how they can do whatever they want and all the places they get to go to because of Usana. And during this whole thing, I don't see them mention the products. They talk about business and doing well. Their downline thank them for changing their lives and for helping them succeed in this business. But where are the products? For all I know, their business can be anything like selling cars or vacation packages because that's all I see. Why do they hardly ever really talk about the products? Maybe except for when they're raving about something that they're rebuying or during a certain time of the year. That's because the secret to Usana is to use the products to sell people a dream of being rich. By telling people that they can have a life like Aaron Dinh and Nancy On.
ReplyDeleteI had a friend called me and tell me that she needs X number of person to join left before she moves up. She begged me to help her out. She did not beg me to buy the products to help her move up, but to join. WTF! When she first joined herself, she told me that if you buy $X of product, joining is free (that right there raise a red flag to them) and now she's a following for Aaron Dinh's Next Evolution (that's their group name).
And what the Usana "leaders" (or scammers) are famous for is making up quotes like for example Aaron Dinh's latest "The journey to success is conquered by Never complaining and Never explaining... ADtm" or "Many Of Life's Failures Are People Who Did Not Realize How Close They Were To Success When They Gave Up" AD™"
Which there's nothing wrong with; they're really inspirational questions, but the motivate behind them are shady. The reasons behind everything they do is shady.
...Continue
ReplyDeleteAnd then people in their downline thank them like...
"Hi Mr. Dinh, thank you so much for creating this wonderful organization! I caught up with my friend today who I haven't seen since elementary school and hearing her story really made me realized what we have here in Next Evolution. She has been through so much in her life and is really looking for a way out. I am so grateful to have this vehicle and mentors who I know can help change her life. Without Usana there can only be so much I can do to help her. I realized that sometimes we are so caught up in our own challenges that we forget that there are people out there who really needs this business and waiting for us to help them. I just can't wait for her to see you tomorrow!" <--- This is just one example of hundreds of pretty much the same thing. No mentioning of products, just thanking them for helping them out or teaching them how to be better. Which is awesome, don't get me wrong, but I thought Usana was about the products, but this...whatever this is they're doing.
The only reason why I know some much of the shady business in Usana, is because of how big it is in California. These college dropouts (and even some high school dropouts) are not afraid to call someone up in the middle of the night to ask people they barely know to join or to get more phone numbers so they can have a bigger list to ask. They tell people that their lives can be better by not working for the man. They tell people that school is a waste of time and to drop out. They stop talking to people who "quit" Usana. They tell their downline that people who don't believe in Usana should be ignored, even if they're your best friends. They encourage you to only be around Usana people.
And I'm not just talking about AD and NO, I'm talking about everyone under them too. And the whole time, Usana is rewarding them for being good leaders. Maybe they themselves don't do it, but the majority of people in their downline would do everything they can to move up. Products? That's a joke. It's just the front they use. It doesn't mean shit to them. They only pretend to really care about you, but deep down, if you question them, they hate it. If you ask questions you should ask, they'll ignore you.
Once upon a time when some of them use to have a Q&A form online, I asked a bunch of questions about the business. Never got a answer besides 1) ignoring me or 2) tell them to hit them up to talk more about. Why won't they answer basic questions about the business online? I wasn't asking for company secrets.
The point is, I'm not bashing on Usana for their products. I'm bashing on Usana for allowing people like that to continue what they're doing and rewarding them for it. How does that make the company look? These people go out and represent Usana, right? They're getting recognized because of how they market themselves. People hate Usana because of how these people were taught to operate. So you can't blame us for calling them out.
Go on facebook, look up the Anti-Usana page on facebook, go to discussions and read about the experiences of people in Usana.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=12018611548#!/group.php?gid=12018611548&v=app_2373072738
It's not just us, there are others out there who feel the same way.
To Luther:
ReplyDeleteOh Luther......
As I was reading your reply, I was facepalming all the way through.
1) When I said, "There are certain things only people doing the business can see", I was really serious about this. And I thought you would get me, but you didn't.
Seriously, this is REALLY something YOU can't see because you're not in the business, as you've admitted. Let me tell you something...
If I want to recruit someone, but that someone isn't willing to do the business (or even not willing to take the products). I can tell that person, "Hey... Why not you just give me your details, and I'll make you a member, but you don't have to buy the initial batch of products, don't have to maintain autoship, don't have to buy anything, and don't have to do the business. How's that?"
Naturally, that person would ask, "Why?"
I'll say, "See, if you're totally inactive, there's no panelty whatsoever, and if you ever want to try out the products and do the business in the future, there's already an advantage readily for you. But for now, since you're going to be inactive, you don't have to pay a cent, except just the insignificant, tiny little bit of annual system fee. That's all."
Have I opened your mind?
2) Did you... Did you read my entire post carefully? You did read through everything right? I remember saying something about culture.
Once again, please, PLEASE, do not generalize the American culture to the rest of the world. I understand that somehow, (some of) the USANA reps in the US are doing the business the... "evil" way. They sell "dreams", "possibility to be rich", and all kinds of (potentially) empty talk to potential customers.
HOWEVER, not every country's USANA reps do this. In my country, they do NOT. They sell products before anything else. They introduce products before anything else. They tell customers how the products can help them. They do NOT tell customers how they can be rich and get their dreams if they join the business, AS IF it was guaranteed that they would succeed. No. How can they be blinded this way?! We don't blind them!
You see, only MLM companies whose products have little to no selling points would try to brainwash people about being rich (and avoid talking about the products).
USANA's products have TONS of selling points. It's plain foolish to just sell "dreams".
Yes, I understand that there's no qualification required to join. But recruiting a person means taking care of him/her and giving guidance to him/her. If one isn't suitable for the business, that recruiter would be wasting time and wouldn't benefit from it too. They know how to think.
In the worst case, the unsuitable person can just "go to sleep". That's all.
(Continues next post...)
(...continued from before)
ReplyDelete3) Maybe we shouldn't just say "focus on" what. When you said "focus on recruiting", did you mean the distributor also sell products but just focus more on recruiting? Or only recruit and sell little to no products?
Of course, if the distributor takes the former approach, success is much more likely than the latter.
But EVEN THIS is affected by culture!!
If you talk about joining in your first USANA meeting with your potential customer, you'll most likely fail. This is the situation in where I live. You just HAVE TO talk about the products, because even if you don't, they'll ask you about the products anyway. The people here are very skeptical, so if you try to avoid something as important as the products, they would think of you as a scammer.
You've got nerve to say there's no demand! Even though there are (definitely) competitors, lots of people have confidence in USANA products! Besides, with USANA products, demand can be easily built! USANA dares to claim many things competitors dare not to. (But don't ask me to prove things about the products. That will initiate another separate, infinite discussion which I have no intention in participating. After all, I'm not selling things here.)
About the $100 becoming $200 thingy, I've NEVER heard of it. There's no such thing.
4) Did you miss this part: "Of course, people wouldn't stop recruiting though"?
You didn't, right? OF COURSE I know recruiting WILL keep going on.
What I was focusing on was the matter that every distributor is also buying things, and thus even if HYPOTHETICALLY recruitment stops, sales of products are still happening. USANA distributors' income isn't based on recruiting new members, but the sales of products. And you know this!
Again, the thing about the cessation of recruitment was HYPOTHETICAL. Meant to illustrate another point, which I have mentioned above.
5) About the system rewarding them for doing it, at the same time they're causing more and more people to distrust USANA, and more and more people to detest the both of them.
I would say that they, and all those who joined them because of the "dreams" being sold to them by those two, are there more for the money than for the products. I may be wrong, but they buy products just to meet the monthly requirement. If it's really so, it isn't really against the rules, and products are still being sold. So it's up to USANA, really.
But over my side, there's no such trend. At all.
It's completely healthy here.
And no. There are no prizes or awards for recruiting people in a period of time.
To Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteThe thing is that there really ARE surprises sometimes when you recruit someone who JUST DOES NOT look like a person for MLM.
I'm not sure about other reps in other countries, but for me, recruiting someone means having to spend my time and giving guidance to the person. If that person isn't suitable, I would be wasting my time. I wouldn't want to waste my time, right?
You should make it clear whether you're saying USANA urges people not to quit and places social pressure, or THE REPS do that. From what I see, USANA doesn't do that. It's the REPS who do that. So blame the reps in your particular area for doing that.
Not sure what you mean by "disown". But what's wrong with considering someone isn't good at networking? It's nothing shameful. I can admit that I'm not good in doing sales as well, and that wouldn't get my face down.
Anonymous, about recruiting anyone and everyone, you're criticizing the entire MLM industry. Not just USANA. And I understand this, which is why people hate MLM as a whole. But really, part of the responsibility lies with the people being recruited to see whether or not they're prepared to do this business if they join.
If brainwashing was used by the recruiters, then it's the recruiters' fault. I personally will never do this. Because I sell products before the business.
To LL:
ReplyDeleteRead my point 5 to Luther in my response posted on March 14, 2011 2:01 PM.
I must thank you for letting me know the situation over there in California.
And I must say, it's sad. They're literally doing anything to get up the ranks, anything, selfishly. And at the same time, destroying USANA's image and THEIR OWN image.
From what I know, recruiting new members do NOT get you money. Your money comes from your sales of products.
If people under AD and NO are not going for the products but the money, they most probably would just maintain autoship and that's it. They COULD actually sell products, and have people being preferred customers maintaining autoship, and still earning the equal amount of money from each preferred customer, just like from other distributors only maintaining autoship.
What I'm saying is that AD and NO's way is just terrible.
LL, I'm not saying you can't criticize them and USANA. And I'm not blaming you for it. I understand what you've seen over your side and I think it's completely fine and natural that you dislike all of them.
I'm merely saying that while this unfortunate thing is happening in one place of Earth, it isn't happening in other places on Earth. And so it's unfair to USANA and all reps of USANA in other places where there is no such thing happening. Because potential customers or potential distributors are going to see this, take it as real IN THEIR OWN PLACES, and think of USANA as shady IN THEIR OWN PLACES, which may not be the case.
This is all I'm trying to say.
Critical Reader:
ReplyDeleteI was somewhat trying to be nice since you seem like a nice person and I even praised you for running the business the way you're running it but after your latest response, let's get real here.
Based on your answers, you are no more than a Gold level. Chances are, you're probably silver or below. You don't make that much money. You have probably been with Usana for a couple of years, yet, you're a nobody in the company. People who have joined after you have surpassed you in rank and income by doing what I said gets the most compensation, recruiting. I make these claims based on your lack of knowledge about this company and the industry as a whole.
Let's look at the facts... you might want to sit down for this and hold off on those face plams...
You said there are no prizes for recruiting people in a period of time yet there is something called pacesetter. This is from usana's site...
"Become a Premier Platinum PaceSetter when, within your first eight weeks, four or more new Associates you personally sponsor activate 1 or 3 Business Centers and collectively generate 1,600 Sales Volume Points. For every Premier Platinum PaceSetter you create, you could earn a weekly bonus that matches 100 percent of the commissions they generate, in addition to your own commissions, for half a year (26 weeks)."
Oops. No compensation huh? Read that second part carefully. You get a MATCHING bonus.
You said there is no such thing as the $200 monthly purchase. People who advance to higher levels, which you obviously haven't, find out the monthly purchases can increase to $200.
From Usana's compensation plan...
"To keep multiple Business Centers active, you must produce at least 200 points in PSV worth of product" ... oops again.
More business centers means more potential money but why in the world would the personal purchase go up? Simple, distributors are the main buyers of the products, not "customers".
You said, "USANA distributors' income isn't based on recruiting new members, but the sales of products." ... yes, sales of products bought by distributors, silly.
I don't blame you for not knowing these things because you obviously don't make much money with this "business". You're in a low position so don't really know the ins and outs of this company. I'm not in the company but with some quick research, these things aren't hard to find. You should really look more into the company you're working and fighting for before making statements like, "this is REALLY something YOU can't see because you're not in the business".
No, the things I am saying here along with the others are things that you can only see if you're NOT in the business, not the other way around.
Just to kick you while you're on the ground.. you said buying products to meet a monthly requirement is not against the rules. Who's rules? You might want to read this excerpt from the FTC...
"Modem pyramid schemes generally do not blatantly base commissions on the outright payment of fees, but instead try to disguise these payments to appear as if they are based on the sale of goods or services. The most common means employed to achieve this goal is to require a certain level of monthly purchases to qualify for commissions."
So the question here is, "Have I opened YOUR mind?"
Forgot to comment on your statement...
ReplyDelete"You've got nerve to say there's no demand!"
I'm merely talking about the product at its current price level. There seems to be some demand at about half the current price as seen on Ebay's completed sales listing for Usana products.
So I'll say it again, the real demand just isn't there. This is why recruiting is needed for the company to survive and prosper. The system inflates the demand of these products by enforcing a minimum purchasing requirement for associates to stay active. How can you count that as real demand? It's like saying there is a huge demand for taxes.
Do you even know how many more associates there are compared to preferred customers? Of course you don't, but don't worry, I'll tell you...
This is from Usana's most recent annual report...
"As of January 1, 2011, we had approximately 228,000 active Associates and approximately 77,000 active Preferred Customers worldwide"
That's nearly 3 times more associates compared to real customers and let's not forget that an active associate is worth more than a preferred customers due to the monthly minimum. I'm guessing a preferred customer includes even those who buy $20 a month worth of products but I could be wrong.
Let's test your understanding shall we?
Q: If Usana dropped their minimum requirement from $100 to $50, what do you think would happen to their revenue from associates?
a) Stay the same because our reps love the products and the demand is not inflated one bit.
b) Drop because I now realize what you're saying and I'm a logical person who is definitely not brainwashed.
c) Screw you. You and the rest of the Usana bashers will forever work for the man while my Usana friends and I will all retire soon. Have fun being a slave to your J.O.B. Usana rules!
I realize that you focus on getting true customers and I admire you for your awesome sales skills but please realize that the superstars of your company are the ones who are doing things that get tons of people burned in the process regardless of what country they are from. That is why you have all of these people hating on MLM in general. As I said before, the system is the blame for rewarding these actions, not the distributors.
To Luther:
ReplyDeleteAhh... Now this is interesting.
If you're going to be heated up like this, I would prefer you did it earlier so we can get the job done.
First of all, thanks for having a positive impression of me. That's how I run the business, and that's how I'm going to run it, no matter my income. I'm still not going to reveal my rank, but I can tell you it's easily a 5 figure. What you need to know is that I prefer the steady, stable way instead of grabbing people in and risk losing them afterwards years in the future, risk creating more hateful people towards USANA (and making recruiting harder), and all those crap. Money coming in slower? So what? That's my style of leadership. And as I've said before, distributors in my country cannot just preach about "dreams", or they'll be shunned.
So you think I lack knowledge about this company and the industry? I don't want to say that I've read far more criticisms and comments towards USANA than you have, but since we're at it, I have to say that what you have shown me is again what I've already come across. Multiple times.
You call the platinum pacesetter a "prize"?
The requirement is just 4 people! And the money from this is just for 26 weeks! And it's something for starters, when there's not much money generating, and it won't last long! In fact, some distributors ignore this thing, do you know that? I guess you don't, because you're not in the business.
Ah... $100 becomes $200...... I don't monitor my payment so it slipped my mind. And it was midnight when I wrote my response. You can choose to believe that I'm just making excuses. I don't mind.
The thing is that $100 becoming $200 may seem repulsive to some, but when you've reached there, it's a lot less repulsive than you would have imagined. That's because it is when you've activated more business centers, and there are more pairs for you to match, multiple times in total. It's just about the same point I made before: contributing to the pool of money that one gets their pay from, and their pay is higher than their payment for the autoship. (And they pay for products, not pay for nothing.) AND, I wouldn't mind because I just don't have enough of the products to sell.
And you're right. Distributors are the main buyers of the products. And WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?!
I don't know about distributors in your country, but in mine, most used to be true customers before they became distributors. They BECAME distributors! You're saying just because it is the EX-CUSTOMER distributors that buy the products that those sales are not "sales"? Products are still being sold, and money is still being generated from those sales. Do you happen to have a philosophical aversion to this?!
(Continues in next...)
(...continued)
ReplyDeleteAs you've said, just a quick research and those things aren't hard to find. Please, those things are nothing more than skin-deep. And I know them. Just because one thing slipped my mind doesn't mean I'd been blinded and that I didn't understand this thing.
You think it's just you who can see things only when one isn't in the business? Before I joined the business I WAS, NOT, in the business. And during then I'd seen things only people not in the business could see. I didn't blindly join this business. I spent months looking into it, and I'm immune to brainwashing because I know how to check things out, unlike others.
So really, it IS the other way around.
By "rules", I mean USANA's policies. There had been some cases about some distributors investing large amounts in inventory just to become diamonds, and their membership had been terminated.
And it seems like you're messed up, because you're taking one point, and usually one point that's unrelated to the issue being argued in the original context, to attack another point which I never brought up in the original context.
Why did I say "If it's really so, it isn't really against the rules, and products are still being sold."? This is directed towards the way those 2 people and the people below them do the business. It was NOT about monthly purchase.
Sigh... Not the FTC again.
Do you think I've never seen that paragraph before? I've ALREADY addressed this issue when USANA Watch Dog brought it up.
I quote myself: "About the FTC's statement, I would say it's more applicable to product-based pyramid schemes with products that have little to no value. Yes, I wouldn't deny the existence of those pyramid schemes that use products to disguise their nature. But if the products have REAL and a SIGNIFICANT amount of value, so much so that people are willing to buy the products, then perhaps the applicability, in this case, of the FTC's statement has to be reconsidered."
If you want to attack my point using the quote from FTC, attack this quote of mine.
I'm sorry. Your kicking failed.
Don't talk about Ebay. The people there are either distributors who can't manage to sell the products (either due to their lack of skills or the anti-MLM culture over their side), or distributors who invest big in inventory and throw off the products on Ebay.
I understand why you just can't get it when I say there IS demand. It's just that you're living in a place where there is no emphasis on products, but only business that has been put in a negative light.
(Again continues in next...)
(...continued)
ReplyDeleteI don't remember saying there are more preferred customers than distributors. There SHOULD be more distributors instead of customers, because the customers HAVE BECOME distributors, as I've already mentioned. So the numbers you showed are not surprising at all.
So you want to test me huh? Then let's play along with you.
In your country, most probably it's C (for those who just want money and not products).
In mine, it's most probably A, but for those who are new and at the beginning stages with less income, they'll lower their purchase to $50 (and increase when their income increases). This is because people here LEARNT ABOUT, REALIZE, and are able to RECOGNIZE the value of the products.
I don't know what the "superstars" in my country had done to reach there, and if they really burned many people in the process, they should be blamed. Yes, I'm not going to defend them.
But you MUST consider the "country factor" (or "culture factor") because everything from views towards MLM to culture to sales of products to recruiting and everything, is connected in an inextricably intertwined manner. It's a complex web of connections. You can't exclude any one factor and say it has nothing to do with anything. You'll go nowhere if you do that, or if you actually "go somewhere", you're not getting the real picture.
There are more than one reason people hate MLM in general. One of them is the rampant cases of REAL scams that other pseudo-MLM companies (which are actually pyramid schemes) did. It's not just because of USANA reps doing bad things.
And you got it wrong.
If you want to blame something, it's the DISTRIBUTORS that are to blame. Not the system. Saying the system is to blame is like accusing file hosting sites (such as Megaupload) for providing pornography. The system is just there. It's all about how the distributors use it.
I know you want to say "but the system ENCOURAGES distributors to do those funny things". It's simply not true, because it depends on how distributors take it, and how the entire fabric of society from which distributors originate takes the system. If you say the system CAUSES distributors to act like that, then it should be true in all countries. But we all know it's not true, and there ARE countries where USANA reps are doing the business healthily.
Maybe they don't get money for how many people they recruit, but they do get recognized by Usana. I think it's all about spreading the words. Even if the people they recruit don't make them money by selling products, they still have to go out there and get names and phone #'s of other people.
ReplyDeleteThey are also under a lot of pressure to recruit. Usana in CA puts on a caring, loving, and accepting mask. Anyone who wants to be rich or wants to feel accepted by a group of "caring" people are usually the targets. The "leaders" are also very good motivational speakers and Usana approves of this method.
I would think that if Usana did not want them to sell dreams and brainwash people, then they would do something to stop them. Because at the end of the day, it is Usana's reputation that is on the line. These people have to have Usana's encouragement in order to do what they do. And maybe Usana in the US is run differently than Usana in other countries, but the fact of the matter is, Usana is still just one brand. How it's run in one country will affect how people see the company as a whole and they will not think, "Oh well, Usana in USA is shady, but Usana in so and so country is not so we shouldn't judge it as a whole." NO! People will look at the company as a whole and judge on what they see and it doesn't matter to them if it's shady here, but not there. It's like if you go eat at a chain restaurant and hate the food/service, are you going to go try that same restaurant, but at a different location? Mostly likely not. You've already form an opinion about that brand.
And I'm sorry to say that they're making it hard for people like you who care more for the products to advance because of their shady ways, but that's the reality of it. They have found a way to make Usana rich and in return, they have the full support of Usana. And we know that not everyone is like this and we're aware that only the ones who care about what they do will continue to come back and fight (like what you're doing here, instead of ignoring us like the other shady associates). HOWEVER, you have to understand that most of the people who hate Usana are from the USA and so what we see will reflect on how we feel about the compnay as a whole.
I'm telling you, Usana stands 100% behind AD and NO. You should see the trips Usana send them to and how much Usana values them just by looking them up. They brag about how much Usana loves them. Honestly, I don't think they would have gone as far as they did in such a short time without the help of Usana. They have hundreds of people in their group and it's rapidly growing over the past 1-2 years. Before that, I didn't even know about this company or who they are. Now? They've brainwashed my friends and family, whom, btw, are trying to sign me up. Products? What's that?
My questions to you are:
ReplyDeleteDo you really want to stand up for a company that values people like AD and NO for how they run their business? For putting on cult-like meetings and acting like they care about everyone and use dirty tricks to get people to join.
Do you really want to continue to come back here and try to convince us that Usana is a good company to start up a business with...after hearing how they support people like that?
And since you're fighting so hard for Usana, do they value you like how they value those people? Do they send you on cruises and trips like they do for AD and NO?
Oh yeah, do you put on your own meetings for your downline and/or do you attending these meetings? Describe to me how they are because I would like to know if they're different from the ones here.
Thanks!
Of course you don't see anything wrong with what your company is doing. There's nothing wrong with having more distributors than customers. There's nothing wrong with inflating the actual demand. Working for a company that is based in the country that promotes recruiting and as a results burns tons of people has nothing to do with your future success because you're based in another country right? Everything is totally fine as long as you're making some money right? What country are you based out of anyway?
ReplyDeleteSeeing that you actually picked "A" as the answer, I can see that you're in way too deep to think straight. Looking into it more, I found that this Nancy girl mentioned above hit diamond level in 3 1/2 years, youngest diamond and well respected within the company. And you're going to sit there and say the system is not to blame?
You keep coming back to this whole "my country does things differently" point and I get that but can you not see that your pathetic 5 figure income that took you years to achieve is something that people here in the country that Usana is based out of hits in under a year? Again, you're a nobody in this company. If the CEO saw you in the streets, he wouldn't even recognize you. If he saw someone like Nancy however, he'll treat her like family because it's people like her that make the company the most amounts of money.
I like how you downplayed the pacesetter award without acknowledging that it encourages recruiting. I also like how you "forgot" you pay more than $100 a month to the point where you wrote down you've never heard of $200 a month, there's no such thing. I guess those vitamins aren't keeping your mind all that sharp huh?
Regardless of what country you're from, if you don't understand that the main point of recruiting and to get people under the minimum requirement is to move products, then you're seriously lost.
Let's say I try out Biomega. I see that it's around $20 and let's say I love it so much, I become a preferred customer. Not only that, I tell a couple of friends about it and get them to become preferred customers too. Do I get paid? No. Why? Because I don't buy enough to qualify. For me to qualify, I would have to artificially increase my demand even if all I want to recommend is that one product to friends at autoship prices.
The fact that you don't see that the company cannot survive without continual recruiting of distributors and having a monthly requirement is beyond me. The people making the most money in MLM are the ones who understand this and do it anyway. Do you really think you know more about these products than these superstars? At their level, I'm sure they know the products inside out but they're still smart enough to realize recruiting is where the real money is at and that is where their focus lies.
If you can't see that if they stopped the monthly requirement, Usana's profits would not only plummet, the company would eventually go under, then you're delusional. Yes, you should use the products you promote but treat your distributors like adults and true business owners and let them decide how much they want to buy per month. That will give you the true demand.
Critical:
ReplyDeleteFound this info about the pacesetter prize... You're right, it's definitely not a prize and it definitely doesn't encourage recruiting...
What you get...
* Platinum PaceSetter lapel pin
* Congratulatory certificate
* Online recognition with your photo in the Platinum PaceSetters Hall-of-Fame
* Specially designed Platinum PaceSetter WATCH (awarded at International Convention)
* Participation in special incentive programs (Matching Bonus, Free Starter Kits, etc.)
* Access to the VIP reception with Dr. Myron Wentz, Dave Wentz, and the USANA management team at International Convention and at Celebrations
* Access to VIP room and VIP seating at International Convention
* Special badges/ribbons at International Conventions and Celebrations
* Copies or special notices on reprints or mailings
* A congratulatory phone call from a member of the USANA recognition team
* Four weeks of Free Starter Kits offered at various times in the year.
These prizes sound pretty insignificant right? Who cares about VIP access to the founder of the company and getting recognized by thousands of people? And you're right again, the 26 week matching bonus is a joke. What's even the point of having a matching bonus when you have a downline full of people who don't make much money?
Those who recruit the most and fastest are rewarded and praised and probably even get their behind kissed by corporate. I can answer LL's question about whether they value you like they value AD and NO for you.
LL, the answer is no because Critical Reader is just another associate number to them even though he/she seem to actually be focusing on the right thing. But hey, nothing personal CR. Usana is a business after all and the number one goal of any business is to profit. No profits, no business.
To LL & Luther:
ReplyDeleteAs I was reading through both of your responses, I realized something. Perhaps there is a misunderstanding in you two about me.
You did realize that most of the time I was talking about products, right? You did realize that no matter how much I talked about the business, I still linked it to the products, right?
This is because what I like and what I'm defending is the products. You would never see me defending the USANA company PER SE. My attitude and feelings towards the USANA company is practically neutral. Yes, at the end of the day, USANA is a BUSINESS company doing business, and so some of the things they do are towards profits. But you see, it's not like USANA is my grandfather's company. I don't have a "duty" to protect it, per se. It's just another for-profit company in my eyes.
HOWEVER, what I like and what I'm loyal to is the products. And the products, as well as the business that's based on the products (as opposed to business that's based on "dreams") are what I'm defending. I won't defend other kinds of twisted business. This, you need to know about me.
I know you'll have comment about this. So say it, and I'll say more.
To LL:
ReplyDeleteAs I mentioned, I understand that USANA is a company doing business. How it's doing its business, I have no control. But again as I said, I'm not defending the company per se. All I'm defending is the products and the business based on the products.
I know that USANA is just one brand. But if its products are so good that people have confidence in them, they're going to use them anyway. Living in a place with a different USANA culture is like living in another world. You see different things and you experience different things. If one likes how USANA is in one's place, using the products and joining the business is no problem already. I'm not saying this as an opinion. I'm saying a fact that is shown to me by other people.
You won't even feel this, because you haven't seen for yourself how things would actually turn out with a different local USANA culture. You'd be surprised if you see it.
And what happened over there in the USA is just that, what happened in the USA. The "evil USANA business" that exists that burned many people is just in the USA. When one is in another place, if the local USANA culture would not promote a business that burns people, the local people wouldn't be threatened to join. Because they know it's unlikely they would get burned in a similar way as how the "evil business" in USA burns people.
About how much the company values me, I'll talk about it in my response to Luther. Read that too.
So you're interested to know how meetings in my place are like?
I don't personally organize meetings, but I do attend meetings held by others, official or not. If it's an official meeting, most of the time it's about the products and health, and the talk is usually given by the local USANA nutritionist. There are also sometimes official meetings that talk about recruiting, but they NEVER tell you to brainwash people. They only talk about common sales technique, ice-breaking techniques, giving name cards, sharing websites, and all those NORMAL, "NON-EVIL" recruiting methods.
So yeah. There's totally nothing shady going on here.
To Luther:
ReplyDeleteBefore you read this response of mine, you should read my response to LL.
I've addressed many things that you should know, and I don't want to repeat them.
Regarding "Working for a company that is based in the country that promotes recruiting and as a results burns tons of people has nothing to do with your future success because you're based in another country right?"...
I'm just going to tell you, if you put it that way, I would say the people in the US can just dislike USANA. No problem. Because that's the problem you think USANA has caused in the US, that's the reaction you all can have. But in where I am, where there is no such problem, it's another story.
Hate USANA all you want in the US. It's fine, because you have reasons to hate it. But over my side, the people have no reason to, because no one is getting burned. Or if there is, criticize those distributors who burned others. No problem. But people who like the products are still going to like them, and the business will still go on.
The fact that you bring up the issue of the system again (in the exact same manner) means that you couldn't understand what I was talking about it. I'm not going to argue with you on this again.
Why do you keep talking about being a somebody and a nobody in the company? So you mind what kind of recognition you get? You mind that more than your money?
I really don't care about how much the company values me and recognizes me. I just want my products, and the money that comes with it! As long as the company sells me the products, and pay me as much as the compensation plan promises, I'm good to go! Seriously! I'm not even a person who likes to travel. I don't need all those recognition and awards, as long as I'm getting what I want.
About the pacesetter "prize", I've no idea where you got that from. And I've no idea whether anyone actually got all those "prizes". But I must tell you, I've been a Platinum PaceSetter for a long time, and I've never ever received any congratulatory cert, no specially designed watch, no access to VIP whatever, no meeting with Dr. Wentz, no congratulatory phone call, no nothing! Except a lapel pin. That's all I got. And that's all ALL other pacesetters around me got.
Come on, do you think Dr. Wentz is so free? Willing to meet every single pacesetter? It's not difficult to become a pacesetter, and there will be a lot of people becoming one.
So you're still trying to bring up the recruiting and monthly purchase issue. Fine. Let's play along with you.
Let's just consider it that way. Let's just say the monthly purchase is to move products. Fine. BUT IT'S NOT HIDDEN INFO! It's out there under the sun! Before a potential distributor joins, he or she gets to know this already. If they're fine with the autoship, they'll move on. If they can't catch up with it, don't join. If joined already, "go to sleep". That's it!
As I said, I can't control how USANA runs its business. They're a company doing business. But I love the products, and so I join the business that is based on the products, and not based on "dreams". I find the autoship not at all a problem. That's all.
Oh hell I REALLY think I know more about the products than those superstars. I'm a very technical person and I've done a lot of readings. You haven't even seen what I know about the products and how they can help us with our health. You don't see me talking about products because I'm not selling things here.
"Delusional"? If I'm delusional by your standard, you're just as delusional as I am. Because we're seeing different things. So I'll just leave it at that.
To Luther:
ReplyDeleteOh... I forgot to add this.
Even though I told you I don't mind not getting recognitions, I DO get them. You can't imagine that I'm not a nobody because this idea has already been fixed in your mind.
It's one thing to believe in the products, but it's another thing to believe in the company, especially when it comes to Usana.
ReplyDeleteYou keep defending a company that doesn't value you, it makes you look dumb.
I'm pretty sure Dr. Wentz had some kinds of a meeting or conference call with Nancy On and Aaron Dinh before. Don't quote me on that, but I think one day they bragged about that. And I think they're gotten gifts from Usana for being at the top too.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you should attend one of the meetings from AD and/or NO and tell us if they talk about the products or "the dream" more. I'm pretty sure they do mention the products, but if I didn't know what Usana was, I would think they're trying to sell me a plan on how to get rich and better myself and live a life without worries.
You keep saying that the products are important in your country, but Usana is not big in your country nor are they making money like how they're making in the US.
Maybe instead of defending Usana, you should just defending your part of the business because what you're doing and what they're doing here is completely different. You might be selling the same thing, but it might as well be consider as two separate companies.
But it just seems like we're going around and around this again and again and not getting anywhere. So this will be the last time I say anything.
Bye!
Critical:
ReplyDeleteI did keep saying that you seem to be doing the right thing, focusing on products. And you're right, I keep going back to the business. I'm not going against just Usana, I'm going against all MLM companies that work the same way.
The superstars of Usana get to visit the headquarters, talk to the people who make the actual products... you're underestimating their knowledge. They love the products just as much as you, however, they know where the money is and put their focus on it and that's why they reach levels in few years that would take you a decade to reach.
By recognitions, I don't mean meaningless certificates and pins for reaching a new level, what I mean is personal attention from corporate. Corporate needs to make sure they give these superstars whatever they need because they make the company big money.
By the way, you would have to be an idiot to directly tell people to go out and brainwash others. Brainwashing is done subtly.
As for the pacesetter prizes, I got that info from several usana reps' websites. Also, most of these prizes seem to be received at some convention that Usana puts on which I'm guessing you never go to because you don't like to travel. And from pictures I've seen, it does seem like many reps get to actually meet Wentz but I'm sure you can care less about meeting the founder of the company and the person behind the products that you love so much as long as they pay you "as much as the compensation plan promises".
Since you finally acknowledge that the monthly requirement is to move products, even though it's in a "let's assume" manner, we're getting closer to an understanding.
You say it's "not hidden info". Are you sure every rep understands that the main purpose of a monthly requirement is for the company to sell its products? Do they also understand that getting more and more distributors MUST go on indefinitely to avoid collapse even though that's not possible and the only reason why the MLM industry hasn't run out of people to recruit yet is because so many people fail?
If you can just acknowledge that if the company were to take out the monthly purchasing requirement then most if not all distributors' income would dramatically fall, then I won't have much else to say.
And is it that big of a secret to just tell us what country you're from?
By the way, since you're a platinum pacesetter as you say, even though you didn't acknowledge any existence of prizes/rewards for recruiting x amount in x amount of time when I first brought it up (I'll just let this one go), here's a link to one of the prizes, a watch.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.unitogether.com/USANAPacesetters/PacesettersSelection12.php?TP=1&BID=10_6Plat
Not sure if this site belongs to corporate or some random rep but maybe it's something you should inform your downline about now that you're finding out about things like this for the first time.
To LL:
ReplyDeleteBig or small in one country doesn't matter, as long as the people run the business, sell products, and get their pay.
I thought I said it very clearly. I'm not defending USANA itself. For me, it's just there. You can even say I like the scientists in it, but not necessarily the entire company, which includes the marketing people.
So please stop saying that I'm defending USANA.
To Luther:
ReplyDeleteDoesn't mean non-superstars don't get to visit the headquarters and talk to people who make the products. But talking to people who make the products is one thing. How much willingness to learn is another.
And if you're going to tell me "they love the products just as much as you", you're not in the right position to say this because you aren't them. Heck, you're not even doing the business. It's an assumption from you. I say this because I've already met those "superstars" that you mentioned and... well, no big deal.
When I first joined the business, the products and the money from the business are all I was expecting. And I'm getting them now. In the right amount. "Whatever they need" is an overstatement. Besides trips, certs, accessories, meetings with insiders, and all those things, what else would the company give? In the end, the products and the income from the business are what matter.
Doesn't mean subtle brainwashing can't be detected. Why are skeptics (like you) immune to brainwashing? Because they're always trying to dig things out that are hidden. We should have at least 50% of this spirit whenever we listen to something new.
So it's true then, about the pacesetter prizes. I've been to the convention, but nothing like those things. Nor do other distributors that I know know about them. I'll find out more.
For your information, I've personally met with, shaken hands with, discussed with, and taken photos with some of the scientists who formulated the products. Their faces can be seen on the USANA website.
I may not like (nor hate) the company as a whole, but I do like the scientists behind the products. And you didn't know this.
Try to aim for the right thing that I was talking about. "Not hidden info" was about the autoship, about the monthly required purchase. Not what you said.
People considering the business are fully informed of what they need to maintain. No "hidden info". They can decide themselves what they want to do.
Any business has its periods of sunrise and sunset. One of the factors to consider when choosing a MLM company is timing. Don't join a sunset business. That's when a company theoretically runs out of people to recruit.
I won't acknowledge what you said about the monthly required purchase and distributors' income. And I won't explain to you. Because if I do, I'm going to bring up something that I've already mentioned before, but which you don't seem to accept. So let's just leave it at that, since both you and I know USANA isn't going to remove the monthly required purchase anyway.
Why do you so want to know where I'm from? It's a habit of mine to never reveal my location on the Internet. Not even country. Sometimes I would even use proxies to surf the Web.
If you really believe that distributors' income won't greatly decrease if the monthly requirement is taken out, then I don't know what else to say. And yes, you're right, the company would never actually do this for reasons that don't seem to be obvious to you or it is but you just won't acknowledge it.
ReplyDeleteYour explanation of "no hidden info" being about autoship is like saying the sky is blue. Everyone knows about the autoship but how many people know about the true purpose of it?
You keep changing what you're saying so it's hard to tell which of what you're saying is true. You said you "don't need all those recognition and awards" and that you don't like to travel yet you later revealed that you've been to the convention and had the privilege of shaking hands with some of the people behind the company along with some of the superstars amongst other things.
You recommended to not join a "sunset" mlm company due to running out of people to recruit. Well, doesn't that mean that recruiting really is the fuel that runs the company after all and that eventually, all MLM companies will become "sunset" companies?
You said to LL that you're not defending the business and that what you're defending are the products. Yet, you are in the business and take part in the business's compensation plan. A bit hypocritical there don't you think? You said it's all about getting people to use the products to better their health. If that's the case, recommend the products but don't be part of the business. Of course, you can't do that because you also love the money even though it's coming from a business you don't even want to defend.
I wanted to know what country you were from just so I know which country has a culture that actually does this business the right way as you seem to keep pointing out.
Like LL said, we're going around in circles here. Just answer this one question for me if you will:
What is the MAIN purpose of Usana having a monthly minimum purchasing requirement in your personal opinion?
To Luther:
ReplyDeleteOf course the sky is blue. And that's what people need to know to do the business.
Why must people know about the true purpose? Why do you keep going back to the so-called "true purpose"? What change would it bring by knowing the "true purpose"? The business plan is already as such. The system is as such. Can follow? Join. Can't follow? Don't join.
Really. I "don't need all those recognition and awards" and I don't like to travel. But what makes you think it'd kill me to go to a convention just once in a blue moon? As for going to different countries to have fun? Maybe not. And shaking hands and talking with the scientists wasn't for "recognition". It was for my own knowledge of the products.
True. Eventually all MLM companies will become "sunset" companies. It's just a matter of when. That's why "timing" is one of the factors to consider.
I never said MLM companies can last forever. Just like any other business.
If you would read carefully, I didn't say I'm not defending the business. I'm just not defending the company itself.
Read my quote:
"You would never see me defending the USANA company PER SE."
"And the products, as well as the business that's based on the products (as opposed to business that's based on "dreams") are what I'm defending."
Nope. I'm still not going to reveal my location. But if you want to know, it's somewhere in Asia. That's all I can tell you.
My personal opinion about the monthly purchase?
It's to ensure that each distributor contributes to the pool of money from which the distributors are getting their pay.
If you want to say that it's to move products, I wouldn't agree with you. Because more than a lot of distributors around me purchase a lot more products than what their autoships give them. Just so you know, with a USANA culture that promotes health awareness and products (and not "dreams" and "opportunities"), people are also very health-conscious over here. And the effects of the products can be seen anytime.
Critical:
ReplyDeleteSaying the monthly purchasing requirement is to ensure that each distributor contributes to the pool of money from which the distributors are getting their pay is even worse than just saying to move products. Pool of money? That doesn't reek of a Ponzi scheme at all.
Telling new people the "true" purpose of the autoship will at least help them realize that demand is inflated and that recruitment must continue indefinitely to keep the whole system working. Whenever true demand is inflated, problems will eventually occur.
Companies make money from selling either products or providing services. They pay their employees or distributors from the income of those transactions. Those transactions should be made because a customer wanted what the company was offering and the company sold it to them.
In your company's case, most of the money that they are using to pay their distributors are from a requirement based demand which isn't real demand at all.
You pointed out that "more than a lot of distributors around me purchase a lot more products than what their autoships give them" as if there is plenty of real demand for the product. If this is really the case, there shouldn't be any problems at all with taking the minimum purchase requirement out since you're saying distributors are going to buy as much products anyway right?
But of course, this is pointless to point out because we both agreed that the company would never take the requirement out. Isn't it obvious why they wouldn't? Oh wait, it's not because you actually believe not much would change in terms of profits.
For anyone else reading this, just think about the logic of all of this. One of the main reasons why the MLM industry has such a bad reputation is because so many people not only fail to make a profit, but many lose money as well.
This loss of money is mainly because of the monthly purchasing requirement among other things. If the industry wants to reduce the amount of MLM haters in the world, all they have to do is take out the monthly requirement, but they can't. The reason is because taking the minimum out would be the beginning of the collapse of the entire industry.
Imagine how the business would run if there wasn't a minimum requirement. What would distributors have to do in order to make money? They would have to focus on getting customers. They can recruit too of course but the only way they would make money from their recruits is if these recruits also go out and get customers. The entire focus would solely be on getting genuine customers and the success of the company would be based solely on the true demand of the products.
If this is how MLM companies ran, we'd only be debating about the quality of the products. Instead of calling an MLM company a scam, people would just say their products suck if it really does.
Critical, since you truly believe that having the monthly requirement or not, just about as many people would continue to buy the products, I don't have anything else to say. I didn't get into this debate to change your mind. For someone who is in as deep as you, it would be like trying to change someone's religion. My whole purpose was just to point out some things to people who were thinking of joining.
To All: People joining or not doesn't impact me whatsoever but it does impact Usana distributors in some way. I have no reasons to make anything up or to mislead in any way. I'm not saying Critical Reader did but many other distributors will, since they have something to gain.
To Luther:
ReplyDeleteA Ponzi scheme has little to nothing much to do with products. Here, the money, even though it's "forced" through monthly required purchase, is completely based on the products.
You know, until this far only I see that your main concern seems to be this monthly required purchase. If you would only bring this up early on, we didn't have to turn a big round just to get to this.
Let's settle it.
It doesn't take a genius to realize that recruitment will indefinitely go on, because the people at the bottom do not earn much, and so they would keep recruiting people. I'm not going to comment on "true demand" because, as you and I have said many times by now, removal of the monthly requirement is unlikely. You can't prove me wrong, and I can't prove you wrong, because it (the removal) isn't happening.
I remember saying this to LL:
"I thought I said it very clearly. I'm not defending USANA itself. For me, it's just there. You can even say I like the scientists in it, but not necessarily the entire company, which includes the marketing people."
I'm not entirely against the monthly requirement because I myself have no problem with it. And as for others, they have already been fully informed about this monthly requirement before they join the business, and this is something I've told you many times. Since they're informed beforehand, if they join, the risk (of not being able to cope) is there for them to bear. They make the decision. It's not like they're forced to join or are intentionally misinformed, which would mean that the distributors who recruit them are to blame in these cases.
It, of course, is obvious why they wouldn't remove the monthly requirement. And really, even though I believe nothing much would change in terms of profits (of distributors in my area) should they really remove it, I'm also interested to see what would actually happen (in my area) if they removed it.
You keep saying that distributors who fail to make money also lose money. Define "lose money". Do they lose money if their money is for products and not for nothing? Seriously, if one isn't interested in the products, don't do the business.
And I've said this before. MLM's bad reputation is more due to real scam cases and distributors with wrong recruiting methods than due to the failure of making money.
Luther, you couldn't change my mind (even though you said this isn't your intention) because I'm seeing what you aren't seeing. I'm not talking about things that both of us should be able to see but only you fail to. No. I'm talking about things that you can't see due to where you are. (And it's not your fault.) I don't want to repeat this again because it's getting old.
You can point things out for others thinking of joining. No problem. In fact, I'm going to do the same.
To all other readers:
If you want to buy USANA products, go ahead. Nothing is wrong with the products. Quality, potency, and safety are guaranteed. But if you're thinking of joining USANA, please take a good look at what the distributors in your area are doing. If they talk more about becoming rich and making your dreams come true than the benefits and strengths of the products, perhaps you shouldn't join. Because your team is unhealthy. They can lead you astray. You can join if you want to, but please change this twisted USANA culture. Otherwise, don't join. Unless, of course, you can find a team that doesn't talk crap like dreams and becoming rich. But becareful. If your healthy team is among the minority, you should know that your business in your area is hard to run, because of so many other teams talking crap out there.
And oh, don't forget that there is monthly required purchase. If you think you can't cope with it in the beginning stages, don't join. If you want to join, bear the risk. Don't say I didn't warn you.
I join because my sister's friend brought me in. I was easily persuade into it because I trust my sister and I believe that I would be helping people by selling a great products and making money at the same time. I was set on selling the products but was always pressure to bring people in. I didn't want to so early because why would I bring someone I know and make them drop $1,000 into something that I haven't even made any money in myself. Soon, the more meetings I went to the more I see how of a scam Usana was. I would hear personal stories on how they got started but I will hear the same one over and over but by different people!! wtf. Also when they tell stories on who recruited them they never match up like they were making up as they go. The meeting seems so setup to brainwash the unexpected person with peer pressure as most people in the room are already in Usana and was told to come and take notes. I would always wonder what notes?! It the same stories, powerpoint, and video they tell at every meeting! But now, I understand. Usana recruiters are suppose to take notes on how to duplicate the presentation so they can scam unexpected people too! So when it get to that point most people would pick up able to pick up on this and make his or her choice to stay. Those leave are usually the one who are uncomfortable this model of business where money is made through "tricky" people. Others saw big money. But there are many who are so brainwash with the lie they are fed that they cannot find themselves to leave the business, especially investing so much money already. I feel sorry for those. I actually work with someone who has been in Usana for two years and still haven't made any money off of it. Poor guy, he is just being use by his upline for the $100 he pay each month to keeps his points. The Company itself is not a scam. Its some of the people who are in it.
ReplyDeletei was a distributor i made some money all you have to do is sell the prouduct and you can make it up the chain the only, catch is to pay for the products every month or you.
ReplyDeleteyou do not get the commisson.
Seriously.. If you all put as much effort into any business MLM or otherwise as you have done on this blog going back and forth at each other, you would all be multi millionaires!! MLM is just a different way for a company to sell its products. If you dont like the products dont buy them, if you dont like the business model dont do it. Its that simple. I guess you will never know if you dont give it a go, some (very few) will make millions from it if they are gifted at creating a large MLM network, and others will just join for a while then quit, but thats like any business, a few at the top will make millions (senior VP's and CEO's) while the majority of the people will make average to below average incomes. This is life. Its up to you where you see yourself and how high you want to climb up the ladder or "pyramid".. I think some parts of MLM are great and others not so great. But damn, who really cares, and why are you all arguing over it so much? Sounds like the person who created this site and who has been monitoring the Usana business for 8 years, should have joined and built a business (maybe sold some dreams!) as they would be loaded by now haha.. Good luck to you all!! MLM lover or hater.. I was just trying to do research on Aaron Dinh and stumbled across this haha. Seemed like a nice guy to me.. Peace
ReplyDelete"MLM is just a different way for a company to sell its products."
DeleteThat's like saying ponzi schemes are just a way for a company to make money or "pump and dump" stock schemes are just a way to sell stocks. The product isn't the main focus, the money is. In MLM, it's mostly about recruiting for the sole purpose of getting people onto the monthly purchasing requirement using the lure of quick riches.
Why do blogs like this exists? It's to help prevent people who are on the fence to not join and waste their time and money. Even if you happen to succeed in MLM, you're doing it by pulling tons of people into a scam. People might not like the products but they were convinced into believing they will become rich if they recruit enough people into this endless recruiting scheme which is why they buy the products. Legit companies have customers who buy the products because they actually WANT the products.
Now, some reps will argue they do want the products but Usana knows there aren't enough real customers which is why the monthly requirement exists. So no, just because people don't want the products, it doesn't mean they will simply stop buying them. They want that potential paycheck, which is the main reason they buy the products at those prices. Most people who quit Usana stop buying the products.
The CEO of a legit company might make most of the money but at least everyone who works for the company makes money. If you don't like that, start your own business. And no, being a distributor for Usana isn't being a business owner, it's being a recruiter/salesperson. If you're going to be a recruiter/salesperson, you might as well work for a reputable company so you don't have to deal with being called a scammer.
The smart ones who understand it's all a scheme and focus on building large downlines will always seem nice. You think real life is like movies where the evil person actually looks evil? LOL. Peace.
Pyramid "schemes" take money and deliver nothing. Usana is a pyramid business opportunity, but so is the business that you probably work at from 8 to 5. Owner --- Management --- Employees. Every dollar that goes to Usana is a purchase of high quality product. Waiting for your lame comeback......
ReplyDeleteYou have a vague understanding of pyramid schemes. So because an MLM company has a product, there's no way it can be a scam? We're not in the 20th century anymore. Do your research and you'll find MLM companies with PRODUCTS being shut down by the FTC.
DeleteReal businesses might have a pyramid STRUCTURE but that's completely different than a pyramid scheme, which is what Usana is. A pyramid structure is based on responsibilities/leadership while a pyramid scheme is based on endless recruiting in order for the scam to continue. If recruiting stops with real companies, they will still exist because there is real demand for their products. If recruiting stops in Usana, they'd go out of business because the main customers are you distributors.
You said, "every dollar that goes to Usana is a purchase of high quality product." That is very misleading. On the surface, yes, Usana makes money by having people buy their products. What you left out is that most of the people buying those products are distributors, the salespeople. Most of them buy $100 of products a month NOT because they have a demand for the products but because they want to qualify for a paycheck. If this wasn't the case and there was REAL demand for Usana products, the monthly purchase requirement wouldn't exist.
Please humor me and tell me what industry outside of MLM makes most of its money from the purchase its salespeople and where the salespeople make most of their money from other salespeople instead of customers?
Please take a minute to think about how you came to believe the "facts" that you believe. Almost everything you believe about MLM came from what your uplines or fellow Usana reps said. They're only "facts" to you because you've heard it said by so many people. Unfortunately, it's all said by the same types of people, brainwashed MLMers.
I knew Arron Dinh before this company. He was in another scam 2BY2 .NET I do not know what happened with that company. These two companies seem like the same thing.
ReplyDeleteSo if i have created a downline of just customers, which is pretty much what i have.... over 2000 in 12 countries... never recruited a associate into the business ... where have i gone wrong with this "pyramid scheme".... pays well over $250,000 a year now ...
ReplyDeleteSo spending a $100 a month on products I WANT to use for myself, having seen the benefits to 1000's myself... why wouldnt i want to buy and use it ...
?????
A child that with basic math knowledge will know what you are saying is not true!! pleas don't reply, thanks
ReplyDeleteI bet that Logic tossa is the guy who Watchdog is linked with from the original statements. Is he your friend Watchdog? At least the Watchdog can control his emotions somewhat even if it's all for a lost cause.
ReplyDeletewow
ReplyDeleteLOL WHILE YOU JUST COMPLAIN AND WHINGE, PEOPLE ARE OUT THERE MAKING A MOTSA.
ReplyDelete