Remove the USANA product from the equation and what do we have? The same thing.
Most MLM promoters claim that Multilevel Marketing is not a pyramid scheme because they offer products and claim pyramid schemes don't have products. This is far from the truth. Modern pyramid schemes offer products to make their scam appear legitimate. Lets look more closely at this and use USANA as the example.
Scenario 1) Lets pretend that USANA had no product. All the distributors who want to participate in the compensation plan would be required to pay $68 every four weeks (13 times a year) in order to collect commission from their downline. Those who make their payments would be considered as “Active Associates”. If a distributor neglects to make their payment for any given four week cycle, then that distributor loses all rights to collect commission from their downline and are no longer considered as “Active”.
So what does this $68 fee consist of? Well, $23 of it goes toward paying the operators of the pyramid scheme (USANA executives and employees). The remaining $45 is used to pay commissions and bonuses to Active Distributors who joined earlier. The amount of commission paid to a distributor depends on the number of active members they have in their downline. The more you recruit and get others to recruit for you, the more you make.
Distributors with 10 active members in their downline would receive $100 every four weeks.
Distributors with 100 active members in their downline would receive $1000 every four weeks.
Distributors with 1000 active members in their downline would receive $10,000 every four weeks.
Unfortunately, the majority of participants (over 90%) do not make enough to even cover the required $68 fee they must pay every four weeks to participate. Most participants don't even receive a single commission check! This is a pyramid scheme. While distributors aren't paid when new recruits pay the $19.95 startup kit (required to become a member), the distributors are paid commission when downline members pay their $68 mandatory participation fee. Thus, distributors are paid to recruit!
Scenario 2) Now lets go ahead and include USANA's products into the mix. USANA's cost to produce their product is $18. Adding that to the $68 fee and we end up with $86, but that is not what distributors will actually pay. In fact, USANA distributors will pay an additional $14, which brings the total to $100. These are actual figures based on USANA's SEC filings. For ever $100 of net revenue, 45% goes toward commissions and bonuses paid to distributors, 23% goes toward “selling, general & administrative” expenses, and 18% goes toward USANA's “cost of sales”.
The only differences between the two scenarios is that one you get a product and the other you don't. Both are still pyramid schemes. Both have over 90% of participants losing money. These percentages are fixed no matter how hard members try to “work the business”. Success in MLM takes a lot of hard work at deceiving people into throwing their hard earned money away by joining a pyramid scheme.
If you are considering joining USANA or any other MLM company, take the compensation plan to your accountant and ask them if you should join. Ask your accountant if the majority of their clients who are in MLM lose money. This broad of a question would not break any client confidentiality rules. Do not let the USANA promoter pressure you into making a decision without doing your own homework. 99% of MLM participants lose money.
So their $100 product only costs the company $18 to produce? So what's the deal with them claiming that the reason they don't sell their vitamins in the store is because it would be way too expensive? They claim they use MLM to bring down the cost to the consumer. So most of the cost of the product is basically just to pay distributors. No wonder they have a hard time selling their vitamins at retail to pure customers.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous,
ReplyDeletePlease look at the both sides of the story to get a more objective analysis.
Ask yourself this: why do some top-notched athletes (those who are not paid by Usana to do publicity) including Olympic champions take USANA products then?
Talk is cheap. Seeing is believing.
And how can you explain this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ddJNnpKi8A
And this is only one of the many independently tested Usana apple test videos sampled.
I encourage you to test it yourself.
Another thing for you to think about:
Narrow minded people see only the pricetag, while wise people see the value, not the pricetag alone.
You cannot simply talk about a "price" while completely ignoring its quality. Only when you put quality / price together do you see the VALUE.
The fact that OTC multivitamins put "artificial colorings" into their tablets is a non-sense for me.
Why would some manufacturer put some "anti-health" ingredient in a supposedly "health" product, just to make it look appealing cosmetically! Especially in a product that is to be ingested regularly into the body for long term. So what they're saying is like, "your body is regularly taking in a supplement with a fairly large amount of good ingredients with a bit of bad ingredients, and that's ok. "
If you still spend your mind on the question of whether a good product is worth a certain price. I'd politely ask you to ask this bottomline question, "how much money is a human body's health worth? Is there a upper limit to this?"
Your robot responses don't really mean much. So what if you have athletes using and promoting your products? Do you realize that there are top athletes promoting other nutritional company's products as well? Are you saying they're wrong or that other company's products don't work?
ReplyDeleteAs for the apple test, that doesn't prove anything. You may want to do more research into why that is instead of just listening to your upline who just learned from their upline and so on. I won't even bother getting into that.
True, value is what should be looked at and not price tag. Too bad in Usana's case, the value is obviously not there. This is proved by the much lower number or preferred customers compared to distributors AND the fact that most Usana reps couldn't sell enough of these vitamins at retail price to make a living on even if their life depended on it. Value is what the customers say it is, not what you (the seller) says it is.
Dear Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteIn order to carry a meaningful dialog, i think we need calm and fair exchange of arguments, and not sensationalism and putting assumed answers in my mouth. My scientific background has let me enjoy carrying nice logical dialog with people with different ideas, without the need to get too emotional.
I am certainly not a blind believer of whatever products or company. I think, I am here to seek truth in better understanding of the big picture of health.
So now I will try to address your questions raised in your post:
- "Do you realize that there are top athletes promoting other nutritional company's products as well? "
Yes, I do realize this, I could even name these companies here, for one example is herba-life.
I didn't say they don't work. Yes, they work and in fact they work much better than the dirt-cheap quality multivitamins off the counter at drugstore.
You see, the supplement market is pretty much a free marketplace(which means a HUGE number of competitors), as opposed to the hegemony of drugg companies( only a handful of them monopolize the entire world public health market). There are various degrees of quality among them, and the gap is huge among the high quality and low quality ones.
The law of free market would simply eliminate any company that couldn't find a niche to compete in the marketplace. Any fresh start-up can enter into this free market if they think they can come up with a "superior" product(quality-wise or price-wise) to compete in it.
Usana is only 1 among say 2000+ supplement companies.
If you look at other great player companies in this market(e.g. Douglas Laboratories, Perque, etc), some of their products pricetag are higher than usana for the same type of products. And these companies have been in existence for a long time.
Again, there is a scale of quality among the different supplement companies products. And cannot be just a "work or not" binary status. To rate a supplement as only "work" or "not work" is too naively simple.
Laboratory scientists have to rate it as "To how much degree of extent does this particular supplement work". There is a certain quantitative degree of measurement to it.
I hope you understand more clearly my arguments.
And you are welcome to clarify anything I wrote that might be wrong.
Thanks.
You bring up an interesting idea.
ReplyDeleteHowever, it has noting to do with what was posted in this blog. The product is a token in a pyramid scheme. You could use magic mud as a product.
You would buy a health food because of a paid endorsement of an athlete. You must love that famous breakfast cereal.That is real scientific.
Would you like to buy a famous bridge?
Usana is about selling a dream of making money and not the product. The associates are the end users. The product cannot be retailed for what the distributors paid for it . Check it out on Ebay.
You still cannot connect with me in a dialog
ReplyDeleteFor example, you still didn't address the main point in my post.
I never did say that "I would buy a health food because of a paid endorsement of an athlete". Again, your strange logic in stating this is out of my understanding.
There are many different criteria I look at when I choose my health supplement.
Does the fact that even on E-bay market, Usana products still sell with prices many times higher than Centrrum multivitamins tell you something ?
It tells me that buyers are still willing to pay for high prices that are many times higher than over the counter type cheap vitamins because they know well their quality. This is what I call a free market. Buyers are not dumb in their decision making.
Come on, I need intelligent and precise counter arguments please!
The points in my post has everything to do with this blog.
This Blog tries to narrow the readers view by attacking one supplement company. But if you widen your view, see how many supplement companies are out there? ! and how many MLM supplement companies are out there? !
Then why only attack Usana? The only reason I can think of is because they fear the best in the market. If Usana is not one of the key players so influential in the market, then they wouldn't bother try to defame it!
In response to the previous anonymous poster,
ReplyDelete1) The USANA products on Ebay typically sell for HALF of what the distributors pay. This means distributors are dumping their inventory on EBAY after they are required to purchase it themselves as a business requirement in order to collect the commission from their downline's purchases (who are themselves doing the same thing). There may be demand for USANA's product, but only when the price is slashed in half!
2) The blogger of this blog (me) widen's the readers view by revealing the truth about Multilevel Marketing. This blog is not about attacking a supplement company. It's attacking MLM and its business model. USANA is in business to sell "Financial Freedom". It's supplements and skincare products are secondary, and are primarily sold to their distributors by forcing them to purchase it in order to participate in a pyramid scheme where no matter how hard every tries, will always yield close to a 99% failure rate (not making a profit).
3) USANA is not a key player in the supplement industry. Most people have never heard of USANA even after 19 years in business.
Another thing about USANA's prices on Ebay. You stated that "buyers are still willing to pay for high prices that are many times higher than over the counter type cheap vitamins..." Since USANA products typically go for Half the distributor's cost on Ebay, and you consider that a "High Price", then what does it say about the price at which the distributors are paying?? I call it "Over priced"!, This is exactly the sort of thing you would expect from a product based pyramid scheme. Lack of retailings, Distributors primarily the sole customer, no possible way to resell for a profit (preferred cusomters can get it at the same price)... This is a pyramid scheme, and the FTC document mentioned many times on this blog explains why.
Thanks for the blogger's reply.
ReplyDeleteDo you have the distributor # of those sellers on eBay selling usana products?
Please disclose their distributor ID here. Thanks.
"Again, there is a scale of quality among the different supplement companies products. And cannot be just a "work or not" binary status. To rate a supplement as only "work" or "not work" is too naively simple.
ReplyDeleteLaboratory scientists have to rate it as "To how much degree of extent does this particular supplement work". There is a certain quantitative degree of measurement to it."
Your argument here has no value when there is no "REAL" scientic research to back up the claim with any unbias claims.
You have to understand what is a supplement. These's supplements are SUPPLEMENTS!!!!
your question on what extent does these work SHOULD be revise in how does it help the human body. As for someone who doesn't have a fully balance diet, they would SUPPLEMENT their nutritional needs in order to avoid deficiency (which can lead to diseases). As anyone would have different diets, anyone would also have different body, metabolism, genetics traits, or environments that affects how these "supplements" can help. In terms of quality, there isn't any comparison; Expensive Vitamin C is the same as Cheap Vitamin C, as long as you need Vitamin C (that is if they have been regulated through certain organizations like the FDA that requires that they actually ADDED the vitamin in there).
When you mention anti-health, what does that suppose to mean? If I gave a example that eating a apple give us nutrition than what about the fiber that comes along with it. Our body cannot absorb fiber therefore it'll passed through the intestinal tract and come back out as feces. As for any "food coloring" or inactive ingredients. A drug for example, have active ingredients that have therapeutic values along with many inactive ingredients. What we need and want is the therapeutic value from the drug... but the inactive ingredients does nothing aside from ability to make it into pill form/gel capsule/binding/coloring etc... It technically is not ANTI-Health but rather should say no health benefits but not exactly design to harm you (whereas toxins or carcinogens would).
To argue, you should understand what you are trying to argue, otherwise you are making yourself look like a idiot.
Dear Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThanks, this post's intellectual level is a little better. (i like it, and keep it up please. haha)
Before I address the points in your first points in your post.
I want to quickly address your last point.
Drugs are synthetic biochemical agent are no way completely inert in the body except for its "therapeutic" value.
In fact, precisely speaking "therapeutic" value is a label marketing people put for "symptoms suppressing" value. because that's simply what drugs function are, to suppress the symptoms
without considering the health of whole body.
I give u a simple example, only the OTC drug Tylenol can give you liver damage.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/johnson-johnson-lowers-tylenol-daily-dosage-to-six-pills-53052/
Another example is: most of the chemotherapy drugs are carcinogenic themselves.
And by the way, human body benefits from the fact that fibre cannot be digested and absorpted, in order for it to lubricate the bowel movement.
The apple test is misleading. Basically, as if USANA were to sell a knife product cutting some product X and other brand using a spoons to attempt to cut the product X then there is no doubt a knife would cut better. The targeted message is about anti-oxidants then you should compare USANA's anti-oxidants to other products that contain the similar amount of anti-oxidants.
ReplyDeleteAgain, the link you provided in regards to the apple test defeats the very basics of a research. That is to say, you should have unbias opinions and set the conditions of X and Y(USANA anti-oxidants w/ OTHER anti-oxidants for the purpose of finding which is better) equal with other factors equal (otherwise outside factors can influence your results); making your research result invalid/false.
geez, the apple test is not a research.
ReplyDeleteplease pay attention to what i wrote!
You two should really choose different names to make this a little easier for those reading.
ReplyDeleteTo the "Anonymous" who brought up the apple test - What do you think this video actually proves?
To the Anonymous poster who write "Do you have the distributor # of those sellers on eBay selling usana products? Please disclose their distributor ID here. Thanks. "
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, Ebay does not disclose actual names of their users, so it is very difficult to name them by distributor. However, sometimes they aren't impossible to figure out.
http://completed.shop.ebay.com/207hillary/m.html?rt=nc&LH_Complete=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3911.c0.m283
This link shows three completed auctions of USANA HealthPak by Ebay user 207Hillary. I've identified this user to be a USANA distributor with ID number 2***2*6. I won't list the complete number because it is suppose to be USANA's responsibility to actually terminate those distributors directly violating their Policies and Procedures (Which Ebay auctioning is one of them).
This Ebay Seller recently sold the following:
1) 1 USANA Healthpak100 for $32.00 on Aug 10
2) 1 USANA Healthpak100 for $49.99 on Aug 15
3) 1 USANA Healthpak100 for $50.99 on Aug 22
Just a reminder, a distributor purchases a single box of USANA HealthPak100 for $110!
I believe I know why some distributors continually dump their USANA purchases on Ebay. If you have 100 distributors in your downline, the only way to get your commission is if you personally purchase over $100 worth of product (which doesn't pay any commission to that particular distributor even if resold). This distributor does not want or use the product, and knows that there is little to no demand for a USANA Healthpak100 at or above the price a distributor pays for it. Ebay shows the price level at which their products are in demand. In the case of the HealthPak100, it is HALF the distributor's cost.
So Ebay is a way to recover some of the distributor's expenses.
Those anonymous comments are a bit hard to follow without different names. Anyway, Ebay is a great way to really gauge what the real demand is for a product in terms of price. Usana products are truly overpriced.
ReplyDeletePutting the product aside, you still have the whole dream selling scheme. Sorry pro Usana anonymous person, but most people don't join because of the product. They join because of the dream of making money. The drop in product orders after reps quit is proof of that.
Watch Dog is it your option that all MLM's are pyramid schemes? And can you recommend a better business model for the average person to supplement their income while improving their overall health and well being? Thanks
ReplyDeleteBruce,
ReplyDeleteThere are thousands of MLMs all primarily selling the same thing: The Business Opportunity. If recruiting new associates is the primary job for the associate (like in USANA's case), then its going to be a pyramid scheme. The product is only used as a token to participate in the fraud. I do believe all MLMs are pyramid schemes simply by the nature of recruiting an endless chain of associates. MLM is NOT direct selling. It isn't even network marketing. MLM is a unique breed that tries to disguise itself as something legitimate when it is not. MLM is simply about recruiting, and it usually takes a massive boiler room operation to succeed.
A better business model would be one in which the individual selling the product makes the majority of the commissions. USANA pays 99% of the commissions to the seller's upline instead of the actual associate selling product. Most of the time, the associate selling the product will never ever receive the commission from that sale, but the upline will receive it instantly! Fraud Fraud Fraud...
Any business model where the sales person is not out trying to recruit others into a scam would be a better business model.
if they want to improve their overall health and well being they can stop trying to recruit people and spend that time exercising. How about eating less fried foods and eating more baked or steamed food? Most people do not need to purchase $110 worth of supplements every 4 weeks, wouldn't you agree? That's a bit overpriced. That's the USANA Healthpak-100... Same thing sells for about $50 on EBAY from distributor's dumping their inventory. So there's another avenue. Simply purchase USANA products from EBAY as a better and more affordable way to improve your overall health.
"To the Anonymous user posting about Tylenol causing liver damage"
ReplyDeleteLet me tell you a bit about what we learn in Pharmacy school in the real world little man. Since you are "educated". Please try to keep up and leave questions at the end :)
Tylenol is normally excreted via metabolizing enzymes. It heavily undergoes Phase II metabolization via Glucoronidation via UGT and Sulfation via Sulfotransferase. When these two pathways are overwhelmed tylenol can undergo Phase I metabolization via CYP2E1 to form N-acetylbenzoquinoneimine. Following?
Now this molecule can do 1 of 2 things. First if the body has enough Glutathione it can harmlessly be metabolized and excreted. This CAN be blocked however due to a few things including, but not limited to, chronic alcoholism, OVERDOSE of tylenol etc. If the amount of tylenol in the body is overwhelming these pathways the N-acetylbenzoquinoneimine can undergo bioactivation to form Liver protein adducts. This is WHY tylenol, when not used properly, can result in hepatotoxicity!
As for the Carcinogenic properties of Chemotherapy, no shit sherlock they are designed to kill cells. Risk vs benefits and for the most part benefits usually outweigh risks. However there are REAL scientists trying to find new regimens and drug profiles that can do better, but for now we are limited.
I would like to see your supplements make claims that they can "suppress symptoms", but they can't! The reason USANA products are so expensive is not due to "Pharmaceutical GMP", but to fund a scheme. There are drugs on the market that actually cure and treat illness that are pharmaceutical grade and way more amazing than any "supplement" and they are sold for pennies. Anyone who thinks USANA products are fancy pants bioavailable are just throwing around fancy words to sound important.
Any educated fool can see through these smoke and mirrors. Watchdog if you need any help or would like to contact me let me know!
thanks for your reponse to my post.
ReplyDeleteThe above post is obviously from a pro-pharma camper.
we all know there are tons of non-invasive cancer cures, but all censored/ignored by big pharma.
supplements are to be used in the long run to supplement the nutrient-deficient western diet to keep us in optimal healthy shape.
The integrity of pharma is near bankrupt. try to google "highest criminal fine in US", and you'll see what I mean.
Added bonus for your studies:
As of June 22, 2011 there have been a total 68 VAERS reports of death among those who have received Gardasil
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/hpv/gardasil.html
What Eli Lilly and their reps did was ILLEGAL and I am glad they were punished. Those two ATYPICAL antipsychotics were pushed onto doctors as "off label use" and of course those practices are now illgeal. I am not a pro-pharma, I am pro health and a pharmacy student. I agree that our diets are terrible, but I try to teach my patients healthy habits and alternatives to their medicine.
ReplyDeletePharma looks to increase their bottom line for their investors. They have to look at a drug for "statistical significance" so they can make money. If a drug lacks a population they probably will not invest in the billions it takes to make it. It is a sad reality that we live in.
I see medicine as a crutch to stop further damage from being done while people get back on their feet. However, most people abuse this crutch as "I am going to be on this for the rest of my life.". This is simply not the case for most people.
As for vaccines they are also RISK VS BENEFIT. They should be seen as a medical procedure that has INFORMED consent. If a person comes to me for any vaccine I make sure to go over the outcomes in ENTIRETY before vaccinating.
When it comes to USANA you can NOT say that they are superior to any other supplement out there. The apple test is debunked. How can you compare apple cells to human animal cells. Completely different physiology, plus 1080% daily value of ASCORBIC ACID (Ascorbate) a PRESERVATIVE will probably preserve anything! Lets put an apple in formaldehyde and I bet we get the same result!
USANA is outrageously priced to fund the scheme, plain and simple. I am not here to promote PHARMA, I am here to promote healthy living!
Thanks for your response again.
ReplyDeleteI've got few points to make at this point:
1) well, the apple test is a qualitative observation.
This test shows the DIFFERENCE in the behavior of the different products.
Ok, ok, let say I'm not going to argue that usana is better. I want you to admit the vast difference shown as a result. The difference could be fore worse or for good. But I will not argue it either way. Let the viewers or readers decide. Could you please admit there's a difference in these products? which is obvious visually. I mean, why are you making a conclusion for audience to swallow it? They have their brains to analyse and conclude for themselves.
....well, Ok, I will not waste my energy and time to convince you anything other than this.
2) The way you even emphasize that you will be nice enough to well informed the potential vaccine receiver about the risk vs benefit implies what? It simply implies that majority(or the consensus) of the medical professions don't do this! and that the public is not well informed in media! Doctors/nurses are busy to care and give a second extra to explain these things. The whole system's profiteer is so based on mass suppression of information.
3) To be quite frank with you, the pro-pharma/medicine training is a program that doesn't allow free-thinking individuals. It "blocks"/"censors" certain relevant areas of study in order to "keep" their thinking in the direction to the advantage of their control and gain of medical field (typical "brainwashing" approach), so that they never think outside-the-box.
For example, try to tell your boss in hospital or your professor about Dr. Burzynski, or Orthomolecular medicine, Dr. Max Gerson, Linus Pauling(with 40+ degrees and 2 Nobel prizes!), and they'd not even want to discuss with you.
Medline(PubMed) censors whatever medical journals(even though well established, they are peer reviewed, backed by prominent scientists) they don't want their health science students to know about.
4) What's the matter of charging a unique product(some supplements contain patented ingredient) very expensive? What's wrong with that?
Why keep on attacking it? It's your opinion(conclusion) that the reason is for funding a scheme. And that's ok. You're entitled to your opinion.
If it's expensive, the "free market" will eventually "punish" this company! No need for all the continuous bashing!
Do you know it's like saying something so simplistic as when one says "oh all car models are moving vehicles that can go from point A to point B, thus they're all the same!" From this simplistic view, you can say Chevrxlxt is the same as a Mercxdes, Both are just cars. both just can do the same thing, but then they neglect and never talks about the details. Remember, "Devils are always in the details!"
And so what's wrong with a compnay like Mercxdes that tries to make their car with fancier electronics and interior design and decide to charge a higher price? what's wrong with that, man!!!! This is a free market society. They simply have the rights to do that, don't you understand, pharma student!
If it's a price that's not acceptable, the market will eliminate it or partially some of their products. For example I know one of Usana's fruit bars was no longer in production because the manufacturing cost went up and demand went down. suggestion for you: perhaps you should take also some classes on free market economy , philosophy on capitalism, hegemony, etc. while you're still a student.
....
Thanks for reading..
Dear pharamacy student,
ReplyDeleteI want to ask one more question to you. What would you tell me if I was the person who go to you for the vaccine.
What would you inform me in its entirety about?
1) The apple test shows absolutely nothing about what the product would do In-vivo. It shows what a tablet with 1080% DV Ascorbate does to an apple. Again I can put an apple in formaldehyde and show the apple doesn't oxidize. The apple test is a 5 grade science experiment that will manage to turn a few peoples heads and think "WOW that apple looks great I would get the same results!" Many consumers hear, or in this case see, with one ear (eye). I agree lets not waste more time on this.
ReplyDelete2) I never said I would "be nice enough" to inform a patient, that is our duty as medical professionals. If you are not getting this from your healthcare find a doctor who cares. Bottom line is that we are put here to inform patients about what we take for granted as common sense, and put them into lay terminology that is easy to make sense for an informed decision.
3) What type of formal training or program have you been through that "censors" any information? In my training we are encouraged on a daily basis to read articles and data so that we build a foundation. Do a few minority of the students not do this? Possibly, but for the most part we are honest and good individuals that want to help people.
Free-market what a great term, and in my undergrad I have taken a few courses. Let me tell you that free-market is a great idea, but do you think free-market is perfect for healthcare? Look up a few things that were put to market back in the days of the dustbowl and what people did to profit off the masses. Free market eventually got rid of the products, but many were harmed in the process. The FDA does its absolute best to keep these products from coming out. Medicine is medicine and will have its risks, but we have good medicinal chemistry foundations to help organize drug profiles for the general well being of the public for reasons.
There is nothing wrong about Mercedes putting extra gizmos and gadgets and charging a fee people are willing to pay. However we are talking about chemicals that are deemed appropriate for certain uses. There needs to be regulation ahead of "free market" to try and minimize terrible outcomes. Look up these regulation bodies and what cause them to be put into place (thalidomide ring a bell?)
The final post what vaccine would you like to know about :)
I hope I addressed all your questions.
Bottom line I want to make about USANA is that they are overpriced supplements that can not be "proven" to work better than OTC supplements. Bioavailability does not always conjure a therapeutic outcome. Look at drugs that are 99% protein bound and the outcomes they have. The fancy words USANA uses are great smoke and mirrors to the general public.
I see you zeroed in, just like me, on the ascorbate content. I suspected the exact same thing, that vitamin C was responsible and that very high amount is far more than the human body can use at any one time. Synthetic vitamin C at that. I would rather eat an orange.
Deletethalidomide is a good example of how evil bit pharma is using playing chances on peoples lives for profit!
ReplyDeleteYes, you're right, they encourage you to read only certain types. such as fake journals by pharma companies. http://classic.the-scientist.com/blog/display/55671/
and there are just so many ghostwritten journals for your brainwashing
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/08/threats_to_science-based_medicine_pharma.php
I bet they NEVER encourage you to read The Journal of Nutritional Biochemistry, or the journal of nutrition and metabolism or journal of orthomolecular medicine, etc.
The fact that you can only know so little(only its preservtive function) about ascorbate's functionalities in human metabolism and physiology show me how ignorant you are about orthomolecular medicine.
Yet you were taught to only know how "foreign" molecules work in the body by pharma companie.
You don't have enough credentials/authority to comment on micronutrient supplements' role in the human body, if you have simply never heard of orthomolecular medicine.
yes, You're probably more expert then I am in synthetic pharma drugs function in the body. But please don't make naive highschool level anslysis of physiological roles of micronutrients.
There is a big area of science in there. You can just shrug it off with your highschool level knowledge of this area of science.
for your education:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG_ChH_TBIM
I think I have an idea of how ascorbate works. I am merely using ascorbate in the context of the ridiculous apple test. Do not think that just because I am leaving out other molecular functions I am ignorant of them. The simple fact that you keep Refering to me as pharmacy shows me you know nothing of what it means to be a pharmacists, but merely a drug rep. I am not going to school to become pharma and i guarantee I would make any one of your usana reps look silly, but that's not why I am in my profession either.
ReplyDeleteYou see unlike having to scam the uneducated with a supplement pyramid scheme I will be a professional trying to change lives in whatever ways I can. I think before you take anymore cheap shots at my area of expertise take a look at your dark side of the supplement industry when Utah made it's moves with legislature to change the face of the supplement industry.
At the end of the day you are not talking to a highschool level associate my friend. I have two degrees and working on my Doctorate. At the end of the day I hold a position of one of the most trusted healthcare professionals with 10 years in the industry. If you wish to converse more please be my guest "teach me" from your buckets of knowledge that are apparently overflowing that my "highschool" level education on supplements can not simply comprehend.
By the way thalidomide had nothing to do with the evil pharma. I was bringing this example to stimulate your ideas about free market in healthcare vs regulation. I would like to know your background and how you can cry about the evils of pharma when we can look at the evils of your supplement industry and this "orthomolecular" medicine you just assume I know nothing about. I feel you may be sorely underestimating me :)
ReplyDeleteJust because I am a student do not assume I've simply had my nose in books. Grants and scholarships are not the only things paying for my education after all!
have u heard of ICT2588? Why no major corporate medias are reporting about it like they promote livestrong foundation? think outside the box phD candidate!
ReplyDeleteYes I have heard about alternative cancer treatments and while they sound great in STAGE I, they need further testing. Hopefully someday UNIVERSITIES, who do quite a bit of drug research and sell their findings to pharmaceutical companies, one day find an answer to cancer.
ReplyDeleteThink about it for a moment. Even the blockbuster drug Viagra had no marketing in stage I of its testing. Granted its original origins were not for ED, but even when its effects were noted it was never touted around. This is not until it came to market. When these new drugs or alternatives come to market is when the press will come around.
Hey there, noticed in this article, the % markdown of the distribution of the $100 only adds up to 86%, what happens to the other $14 or 14%?? I'd really like to know.
ReplyDeletesorry, i mean make up....
ReplyDeleteIntrigued,
ReplyDeleteThe remaining 14% is USANA's Net Earnings before taxes. This is USANA's cash cow. The inevitable reward of running a company which deceives people to sign up as distributors by selling them false dreams. As long as USANA can convince the population that each and every person who joins has a chance to become rich, USANA will continue to reap the rewards by forcing its distributors to purchase overpriced product that has virtually zero demand.
Zero demand is evident of the fact there are over 3 distributors for ever 1 preferred customer. zero demand is evident of the fact that when distributors unable to retail the product resort to selling on Ebay, that the auctioned price is typically 50% less than the distributor paid. This means there is virtually no demand at even the distributor's cost.
This remaining 14% ends up being used to repurchase stock all while executives and board members sell off hundreds of millions of dollars worth of stock options.
Dear Rumpelstiltskin (AKA: Usana Watch DOG) You don't mind if I call you Dr. DOG for short?
ReplyDeleteTell me - I'm curious why you don't use your REAL NAME???? Maybe I should emulate you? Oh! I get it!!! ... That way no one can google me and see where I'm writing what! Good idea! TKS.
I hear you are big BUDDY's with that (slimy) promoter fellow Barry Minkow!!! You know - the one who went to jail for his dasterdly deeds. Your writings sure smell of his influence Dr. DOG. Tell me - do you know whether your buddy Barry Is IN or OUT of jail these days??? {I think I heard IN - right!}
And why don't you tell your readers all about your "Stock Investment Interests" Dr. DOG - Yeah! That's right - the one's where you benefit when a stock goes down!!!
Do you and Barry split the weekly take - I mean when you dream up the flow of ditrius you have been printing - all twisted to make the companies you are slandering, (and many innocent people associated with those companies) sound like deceitful entities or worse - crooks ...... THEN the Stock goes down!!! And you make LOTS OF MONEY!!! That's how the game works right? Today it's USANA, being only ONE of the companies you're spending your energy on trying to discredit. What are the other company's your energy is discrediting MR. DOG.???
I guess keeping your real name under wraps means we can't google you and find ALL the many other slimy 'discrediting machines' you are running, can we.
I guess in these hard times .... some people will stoop to very low paces to make a living! Even to discrediting good people. My sympathies go out to you. Hope you get a good job this year Mr. DOG. {Hot Tip: be sure not to put this one on your resume}
In response to "An Admirer"
DeleteI don't use my real name because of kooks such as yourself. I am no buddy with Barry Minkow. He destroyed the good work many people have done to educate the public about USANA and MLM. He used the work of Robert FitzPatrick, Jon Taylor, Tracy Coenen and others for his own person gain all while lying to them. The information released about USANA was accurate and true. His scheme of purchasing PUT options prior to the release of his initial investigative report on USANA is unethcial and probably illegal since he had insider information knowing full and well that his report would drive the stock down. The courts threw out USANA's lawsuit regarding false information in his reports because USANA refused to open their books during the discovery phase. Because of this, the court ordered USANA to pay over $100,000 to Barry for wasting his time. However, one suit remained which was in regards to Naked Short Selling. USANA bought Barry off and paid him an undisclosed sum of money to have him remove all his content regarding USANA off his website. As most people know who followed the Barry Minkow fiasco, the guy would do whatever he could for a buck, even if it meant USANA buying him off.
I have already disclosed my "stock investment interests". I have never owned or traded any stock in USANA or any of its competitors. I have no financial interest whatsoever with USANA. I am not researching or writing about any other publicly traded company on the stock market either. I am not paid a dime for the information I have written on my blog. You must think everyone is always looking for a way to make a buck. There are some of us in the world who don't seek out fortune because there are better things in life than money.
Since you obviously think the information I have on my blog is false, I would like you to specify what claims I have made that are untrue.
Hi Watchdog,
ReplyDeleteI'm impressed with the amount of information you have in the business. I would like to ask you a couple of questions:
1) If USANA is a scam, then why has it survived for more than 20 years? I have joined other really sucky MLM's in the past, I've experienced it suddenly closing down. And I hate them for doing that. The difference that I have observed is in the product quality - in a simple manner that it works for me, for my family and my customers, AND YES my associates. For my associates wherein the product didn't work, well they stopped the business! - They don't hate me for it).
You keep mentioning that distributors are REQUIRED to purchase products, when in fact you're only supposed to buy those products if you want to qualify for the matching bonus. If you just want to retail the products (such as what I'm doing), you don't need to pay that amount. It would be stupid for a distributor to keep buying a product without retailing it!
This is actually one of the reasons why most MLM's crumble in its first 5 years - because no one is using the product. People aren't stupid to keep on buying a product without selling or sharing it.
Anyway, I've mentioned too much stuff. I just want an answer on the company's stability. It's been here for 20 years - and that's a feat given its nature of business. :)
Hoping for your usual educated response :)
To answer this question, you should first read this section regarding Mark Shurtleff (Utah's Attorney General)
ReplyDeletehttp://mlmpyramid.com/Shurtleff_Endorses_USANA.html
MLMs in Utah are protected. MLMs from Utah have given millions of dollars to political figures. If the pharmaceutical industry does this, many people would cry fowl. I have heard many USANA distributors including Ladd McNamara (in person) state that the FDA and the Pharmaceutical industry are working together to keep people sick and keep the truth from the world about the benefits of vitamins. They claim collusion between the drug industry and the government. However, it doesn't seem to bother these same people that the MLM industry have given millions to political candadites.
So after USANA gave Mark Shurtleff quite a bit of campaign contributions, Mark speaks at a distributor event and endorses USANA. That's illegal, but Shurtleff is above the law. Recruiting Chinese Nationals from mainland China into USANA's MLM in the Hong Kong territory breaks foreign laws. USANA violates the FTC's section 5 "unfair or deceptive acts or practices", but the officials at the FTC look the other way.
So to answer your question, I believe USANA is protected not by the law, but by government officials. No other type of legitimate business fails 99% of sales reps. Not even casinos leave 99% of participants as losers. Losers, being defined as someone who lost money versus breaking even or walking away with more cash.
As for your claim that USANA products can be retailed, that is absolutely not true. Preferred Customers get the product at the same price the distributors do. USANA distributors resort to Ebay just to get the volume and commissions even if it means selling the product at HALF the distributor's cost. USANA distributors also pay a hefty amount for shipping and handling. So in order for a distributor to retail the product, they must rip off their potential customer first. Besides, USANA is already ripping off their distributors. So I don't believe you for a second that you are successfully retailing the product. Perhaps you are giving it away or at least reselling it at your cost. What if your leadership level if you don't mind me asking?
I am not rulling for anyone nor any company. In fact, I think I have learn quit a bit of information on this blog, thanks to all of you. I just wanted to bring up something, not particular to the usana company since it is rule and control by many "share holders" and you really can't do everything you want. What I don't understand is that if the founder of the company "usana" is to dream that this world is free of sickness and diseases and that his parent's both died of disease. The fact of him able to create this beautiful product to better the living of others and making his dream come true. Why is he selling the product with such high price? Doesn't that conflict with his purpose of bettering people's health. What about those people that can not afford to pay this kind of price to take usana's product but are also not able or simply don't have the ability to get the sale in to make commission to reduce or even out the cost they need to take usana product that they so believed to help them live longer? If u tell me that usana product cost lot of money to produce, then where do they have all those money to pay the commission and salary and cost of all the promotion, convention, rewards, bonus, etc.. On top of that how come usana only sponsor two charity and neither have anything to do with the health? I am sorry, perhaps I do not see the whole picture, it's just the simple statement that company and founder make that does not corresponde with the action. I believed that it's product is good and I also know that everything cost money in this world, even hospital and good works and charity's have connection and you do get better treatment when you know someone. I am just disappointed that at the end it is still all about the money, even when your dream is to have people from this world free of pain and suffer from disease.
ReplyDeleteThank you
Www.forbes.com/2008/05/13/Usana-gull-holdings-markets-equity-cx_cg_0513markets21.html
ReplyDelete3rd of last paragraph, Forbes states:
"The company has also been subject to scrutiny over its business practices. Tuesday's offer comes a few months after the Securities and Exchange Commission in the United States concluded Usana's marketing model is NOT a pyramid scheme."
I think the research team of Forbes and the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) are much more credible than everything said on this blog lol. One can't argue with facts....
Your link is wrong, but anyhow, this is only equivalent to saying Usana is not actually an illegal operation. People would now be in jail if the SEC had concluded it is a pyramid scheme.
DeleteThe SEC statement does not IN ANY WAY imply that Usana has an ethical marketing model, merely that they're above the threshold for arrest.
Not ambitious enough to read all the comments. I am not a distributor, so therefore have nothing to gain or lose. One of the early comments was something to the effect of the $68 product costs only $18 to produce ... so. Research the cost of ANY of the products you purchase in the store.. ALL are pennies on the dollar. Difference is all the mark-up in those cases is mostly going towards several middle men and TV / magazine articles. I'd much prefer it go to those actually moving the product. Those that train the most people make more money ... well, duh. I've yet to see the head of a corporation make the same as the people who work for him. most of the time I suspect he doesn't even know what they do. I guess you could always go play for a sports team ... ;)
ReplyDeleteActually, you were not ambitious enough to even read the article. The article was not about the cost to produce the products, but about the fact it doesn't matter if USANA has a product or not, they are operating a pyramid scheme. The $18 cost to produce would be for a $100 product, not a $68... Certainly not pennies on the dollar, but still an irrelevant factor in the article.
DeleteRegarding your statement of "Difference is all the mark-up in those cases is mostly going towards several middle men and TV / magazine articles. I'd much prefer it go to those actually moving the product."
When the distributor purchases a $100 product, $45 from it is used by USANA to pay commissions and bonuses to the upline distributors - primarily only really benefiting the top 1% of distributors in the company as the remaining 99% of distributors never make enough commission to recognize a profit. So when you purchase a product from USANA, you have hundreds if not thousands of "middle men". Worst of all, the distributor who actually retails the product to a real customer, or in your words "those actually moving the product", gets ZERO commission.
If you ever decide to join USANA, I seriously recommend you read the fine print as well as between the lines.